Hi all,
Our first post! Yah! Actually, my wife and I joined this forum awhile back as part of our research about buying a Lazy Daze, so, while we haven't posted anything, we have been reading. A lot. My wife and I have combed through websites, reviews, travel blogs, videos, and other sources to get as good an understanding about Lazy Daze as we can, and it all comes up...well, a big thumbs up. And that comes as a bit of a surprise because I've always leaned more toward the ex-military 4x4 overlander/expedition rigs. Consequently, we added ourselves to the Lazy Daze wait list back in November even though we've never been inside a late model Lazy Daze or visited the factory. For that matter, we've never owned an RV before, though we are familiar with certain RV realities because my brother owned an 80's vintage LD and a '04 Monaco.
Anyway, we're flying down to Ontario next week to visit the factory and take a look at the new models, particularly the 27' mid-bath. We've been told that the office will be somewhat short-staffed, presumably because of Spring Break, which isn't a problem for us so long as someone will be around to answer our questions.
So, speaking of questions, are there any specific questions anyone would ask during a factory visit? Right now we're focused on two deal stoppers...are the couches long enough to sleep on (I'm a little over 6'2"; my wife is 5'10)", and what kind of seat belts/safety arrangements are there for a third person (our daughter). Thanks to the wealth of info on this forum, I think I have a fairly good handle on LD quality, the merits of various options, additional power outlets, pros and cons of additional LD installed solar panels, awnings, etc, but that doesn't mean we've made up our minds on anything. We're all ears if anyone has opinions about anything that could make our visit to the factory more productive.
Thanks!
Cousin Eddie, welcome!
I know you'll be getting lots of advice from those who have actually purchased new but in the meantime, I'd say go there with an open mind regarding models and lengths. What may look good on paper (floor plans) or during your previous research, may be different once you actually sit inside the available models at the factory. Plan on spending the entire day, imagining yourself actually using the coach for whatever uses you intend before placing an order. And, have fun!
You will likely find the length of couches in back marginal for your height when set up as twins beds. You'll know more when you lie on them. If you pull the couches together to make a king you should be ok.
I suggest you get the names of the office staff and their responsibilities straight so you know who you should be communicating with in the future. There aren't many but it helps to know who is who when you call.
I ordered a 2016 and the process went well. Sounds like you are ready for ownership. Frank
We have been a couple of times, when in the area, though not to buy a coach, for parts and getting firsthand information about our refurbishment, as well as an air conditioner installation.
I would make sure there is someone specific who knows you are coming and is prepped to assist you. The atmosphere is so casual it is important to get your expectations set ahead if flying in. Once it was clear we weren’t buying, we were left quite alone, to spend as much time as we wanted in the parts area, the parking lot, and in the one floor model they happened to have there. Our needs were well taken care of by Vince, since we were asking about repairs and had set up a meeting with him in advance, in detail. Otherwise, he and others are so engaged in what they do that there was no time for exploratory chit chat. This may be the case when they are short staffed. We were not allowed to go in back, I assume since we weren’t buying new, in spite of the $1000 of work being done to install the AC.
The impression I get is that there is one person for every two jobs, so no one is there to pick up service for a casual drop in customer. Calling ahead helps them help you.
Our coach was owned by a friend, 6’3”, who slept in the overhead bunk.
Good luck!
Cousin Eddie,
I agree with Greg (HiLola). Go there with an open mind where floor plans are concerned. I had already decided the Mid Bath was the LD for us.
Looked great in pictures and on paper. Absolutely gorgeous coach. After stepping inside, I was blown away by the stunning looks and build quality. I was pleased. My DW, not as much. Seemed a bit cramped for her. I was loving the coach.
We entered the Rear Bath on display and I was blown away but the openness of the coach. The bathroom was massive compared to the MB. A day later I laid down the deposit. 2 1/2 years later after traveling in it I am still deeply in love with it and very pleased with my wife’s suggestion to “check out the other one”.
Still... the MB is a fantastic LD and many on LDO would not change for the world. Look at as many as you can. Too bad you’re not in Morro Bay right now.
One thing to be cautious of is price negotiation. There is none. And that’s ok. What you get as standard equipment on a Lazy Daze is an add on with many other manufactures. Too bad that with many SOB RV’s you don’t get what you pay for. High prices and far too often poor build quality, but you already know that.
A “Grand Tour” of the facility? That would be nice, but not likely. But then again some have been able to see behind the scenes. Maybe you will be one of the fortunate few.
Bed length... I’m about 6’ 1” or was at one time. I sleep on the drivers side pull out couch. All in my toes hang over an inch or so if I slid down off my pillows but usually not. My DW is about 5’ 5” And she snuggles up very well with plenty of room to spare on either bed.
Seat belts...in the RB there are two seat belts on the passenger side couch and one on each of the dinette seats. I think Tiger had additional seat belts added to his build list.
An extra 12 outlet is not a bad idea. I wish I had known to request one. As it is, the RB has one below the dinette that is powered by the coach battery’s. One in the entertainment shelf area that generally gets the blue ray players power converter. The two dash 12 volt outlets are powered by the truck battery. But they are there and don’t required the key to be turned on so that’s handy.
Congratulations on your choice of MotorHomes.
Kent
Welcome Cousin Eddie, lots of LD/RV experts here, many happy to help, just ask away. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the experienced opinions the members share with you. 🐯👍
The interior height of all the LD's is 79". The driver's side rear lounge in a MB is 32" X 71". The passenger's side rear lounge is 36" X 76". I'm 6' and shrinking and the passenger side lounge is very comfortable for me. Hope this helps.
Todd is the only salesperson. He knows the product inside and out. Vince is the foreman of the factory. He know the guts of any LD. Todd will be on hand to answer any questions. There really is no pressure at all. We were able to sit in the LD for as long as we liked. If I may - that would be my advice. Act and do the things you and your wife would be doing as if you are already own the RV and are camping in your favorite spot for the night.
We just one month ago took possession of a new 2017 Rear Bath. We just returned from a 28-day shakedown tour. Our experience is all positive, and I agree with almost all of the various comments above. Look around at various models. We were like Kent and his wife. We initially liked the Mid-Bath model, then started thinking it through, and decided we should check out the Rear-Bath. Sold! We very much liked the spacious open floor plan, and when the bath is closed off, the bathroom is very spacious and accommodating. But, as you will read ad nauseum, everyone has different likes and needs, so go in with an open mind.
That same YMMV attitude applies also to the various options. Many opinions about same. You did mention that you are new to RV ownership, so if I may, I will caution you about getting too dazzled over some of the options. This RB we just bought is our 9th RV. We have been in the "game" for nearly 40 years, as have many folks in this group. Accordingly, we knew what we wanted, and what we knew we did not need -- again, all based on our RVing lifestyle, which favors boon-docking over RV resorts and parks. We ordered just four of the available options; the upgraded electric mirrors, the rear-view camera, the extra solar panel, and the battery cut-off switch. Options that would have been nice, but which we knew that we could very easily do without are the electric step, in-dash navigation, and Bilstein shocks. Options that we knew were a complete waste of money, weight, and time for us are the roof sat dish, outside shower, hydraulic stabilizers, and custom upholstery. Others in this group have uses for all of this stuff, Like I said, we all have a style that we are comfortable with, and LD has options for nearly all.
Now that we have completed a shake-down trip I can say we have no complaints at all. Not even the constantly whirring converter bothered us all that much. We don't miss the slides, either. We are very content.
Visit here often.. There is an abundance of great advice and resourcefulness.
Wow, thank you for the great information and recommendations! When we planned our visit it was done somewhat in reverse. My wife is a fan of Southwest Airlines so when she saw a cheap fare from OAK to ONT she grabbed some tickets. Only then did I think it might be a good idea to call Lazy Daze about a visit. Doh! I spoke to a very friendly woman (whose name escapes me) who apologized about the short staffing. She took my name so I assume they won't be ambushed when we walk in the door. We definitely should have called first and then made flight reservations, but we're okay with being left alone to sit and consider our choices. In fact, I'm much happier not being pestered by a hovering salesman. Of course, it'll be nice if Todd is there when we do have questions (especially about seat belts), but no matter what it'll be an adventure.
I'll be keen to see how I fit on the couches. With regard to options, the only ones that have risen to the top of our list are the electric mirrors and possible radio/nav packages, maybe the Bilsteins(?), and additional power outlets. It's a blank slate for everything else, and, in light of your suggestions, even floor plans.
I will say that our preference is to boondock. A lot of folks speak highly of AM Solar and aftermarket solar installations, so there's that possibility. Candidly, what partly motivated us to get serious about an RV were the fires up here in Sonoma county. We had to evacuate in a hurry and there's nothing like an evacuation to make you wish you had an RV.
Cousin Eddie,
You said, “In fact, I'm much happier not being pestered by a hovering salesman”.
That will never happen at Lazy Daze. Todd is a very knowledgable and laid back rep. When my wife and I walked in unannounced, the floor models were unlocked and we took our time to look at our leisure. No hard sales pitch. No haggle. All our questions answered when we were ready to ask them.
It’s as easy as that. Enjoy your visit. The Mothership is as old school as it gets.
Kent
Cousin Eddie, welcome to the group. Everything posted so far has been bang on target. Let me touch just a little on your stated preference to boondock. One of the deciding factors for us to choose the MB, was the great window arrangement in the rear of the coach. When you are parked in a drop-dead gorgeous site, it is just great to open up the blinds in the back and soak in all of nature's glory. For us, a BR in the back would get in the way of the view. However, the comments about how the rear bath opens things up are on target. Good luck with your choice of floor plans.
Went there thinking pretty much the open floor plan of the Rear bath was going to win the day. Walked out with an order form for a new Rear Kitchen.
Enjoy the experience!
Dave
Given that some of you changed your minds about floor plans, I'm now very curious to see if my wife and I will be drawn to other configurations besides the mid-bath. We like the idea of the MB (on paper anyway) because it sort of creates two separated sleeping and lounging areas. The large rear windows also seem like a plus, as rm2011ldmb mentioned. Again, this is all based on looking at photos and diagrams, so we're definitely looking forward to walking through the models in person.
Hello Cousin Eddie!
When we were looking around for an RV and after we had toured many RVs, in October of 2006 we flew out to Ontario on SW from the East Coast to spend a week kicking tires at Lazy Daze. We had never RV'd nor had we expected to...but here we are, enjoying life on the road 7 months of the year in our MB.
We thought we'd go for a 29.5 queen in the rear...but fell for the Mid-Bath. We knew we would not sleep in the cabover and find that pulling the sofas together for an oversize king works great...The Captain is 6'4" and I am not. And remember, you can always sleep with your head curbside and feet streetside just as well as feet-to-the-front! The shower stall will be tall enough for you due to the dome skylight.
The first thing to prepare for in visiting The Mothership is to take the building in stride, inside and out. It's a bit of a time warp (they may still use the carbon paper for duplicating paperwork...the last few sheets in captivity) and the decor is "we did this once, why do we need to do it again?" The second important thing is to never, ever ask a discount or attempt to negotiate. The price is the price, and if you do try to negotiate, you will find the atmosphere has become quite chilly.
If you do talk with Steve Newton be prepared for him to be preoccupied and sometimes quite abrupt...it's not you. He is the person who makes all the decisions from top to bottom. He is an engineer by training and temperament and is not "chatty," but he warms up tremendously when you are enthusiastic for and complimentary of the product. A few years ago when we were there to have some maintenance and upgrades done to our LD, he not only showed us something on his computer that he was working on, but he also took us out onto the production floor to show off an improvement soon to hit the streets.
We spent the better part of several days crawling in an out of all the models on the floor and never felt abandoned or pressured. Someone will check on you every so often or be available to answer any and all questions, but no one hovers or makes you feel that you need to make a decision today or even next week.
Have a good time and don't expect hot water in the bathroom!
TinaP
2006 MB "Wild Thing"
There is not a bad floor plan. We are partial to the 27. We happen to have an MB simply because we saw one and ordered it. Only went to the Mothership after they started the build. I am 6'4" and my toes do not touch the wall on the passenger side couch. There is plenty of room in the cabover, but we don't care for ladders.
Todd is the man. He will leave you alone as he wears several hats. Sit a long time in whatever floor plans are on show and make a list of questions.
I would not sweat details like extra outlets. I have added one in a new location almost every year as our needs change. USB outlets now seem to be more useful than cig lighter ones. If you can do basic wiring you can add your own where you want them.
As Tina said, Steve is an engineer, enough said. Be sure to at least shake hands with Vince and say something that he might be able to recall about you down the road if you have a maintenance problem. He seems to know everything about every model made.
Don't expect a tour. We got one with Ed. That was an experience.
Vince did ours with a word or three from Ed. Vince kind of got thrust into sales that day due to a short staff or some such. He did a great job taking us to the assembly line to see various stage builds from raw chassis to mostly complete. Back then there was a model of everything on the showroom floor too. Great experience for newbie RVers.
My recollection of Ed is that when I brought up whether to add an electric step he yelled, “No, it’s just another electric thing to break!” That was the end of that!🤣
Hey Cousin Eddie - very interesting thread! We visited the factory last fall in October. They had a 27MB on the floor which is the model we were interested in seeing (I think they also had a 24' model on the floor). We wanted to see how the beds configure for sleeping. Decided we didn't want to set up and break down the beds every day - so we found a nice couple in Pennsylvania (where we live) willing to show us their 31' Island Bed - loved it at first sight and are planning to order one for delivery next year upon retirement. We had a great chat with Steve while at the factory and have deep respect for his integrity and pride in his product. After much research, going to RV shows and following online RV forums - I always come up with the same conclusion. Can't beat LD quality. I will be interested to hear how your visit to the factory went - and what you finally decide to purchase. Happy trails!
Cgoochee, sent you a PM.
Right now we're focused on two deal stoppers...are the couches long enough to sleep on (I'm a little over 6'2"; my wife is 5'10)", and what kind of seat belts/safety arrangements are there for a third person (our daughter).
Beware, there are only two crash rated seats in an LD, the driver's and passenger's captain chairs.
The rear seats are not a safe place for a child or adult, when traveling.
The rear benches face sideways, a very bad position to be in, in case of a crash.
The dinette seats have low backs, and would lead to bad whiplash.
The seats are made of wood and do not have shoulder belts nor is there a strong enough way of installing them.
There have been many previous discussions pertaining to this topic.
My recommendation, for traveling with three or more, is to buy a pickup and trailer.
The seats in the truck will be crashed rated, according to Federal regulations.
AFAIK, no Class C has safe, crash rated rear seats.
Larry
"Be sure to at least shake hands with Vince and say something that he might be able to recall about you down the road if you have a maintenance problem. "
----
Yes. And, do greet the women in the office; they can be important allies and 'expediters', and, like others at the factory, often wear several hats.
I learned the lesson early on of knowing who the critical 'movers' are in any operation and that acknowledging their value and showing one's appreciation can go a long way to making the whole process run more smoothly for everybody. ;)
"My recommendation, for traveling with three or more, is to buy a pickup and trailer.
The seats in the truck will be crashed rated, according to Federal regulations.
AFAIK, no Class C has safe, crash rated rear seats."
Larry is so right!! SAFETY FIRST!!!
If you have two able-bodied drivers, and wish for the utmost safety of your loved ones, best to use an appropriate vehicle to transport them from place to place. Towing your auxiliary vehicle is not always the perfect solution, but if you analyze your needs carefully, you may find a suitable solution that doesn't endanger lives.
If you already have a suitable vehicle for your family's needs, then no need to buy an additional or substitute vehicle. There will be no expenses for the purchase and installation of the towing equipment, and no worries if everything is hooked up correctly, or if you are overreaching the towing limit.
Yes, there will be an additional cost for fuel, but analyze the difference (if any!), to see if the safety of your loved ones is worth it.
Caveat: In over thirty years of RV'ing, we have NEVER towed a vehicle, but instead either go "nekkid", or I drive a separate vehicle - and there are only two of us! It should probably also be said that I really hate to drive, so this solution seems best, even under those circumstances.
Virtual hugs,
Judie <-- Sierra Vista, Arizona
Adventures of Dorrie Anne | Photographing the West (http://dorrieanne.wordpress.com)
Today: Typical Taco Lunch Plate
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My recommendation, for traveling with three or more, is to buy a pickup and trailer.
The seats in the truck will be crashed rated, according to Federal regulations.
Or plan on driving a separate vehicle (an untowed toad?) on your trips with other family members. Then again, remember before seat belts when we were kids and rode around like this?
Edit #1: What Judie said!
Edit #2: Before I get ostracized, this is not my cat!
Seat-belts are a controversial topic, with a lot of strong opinions on each side.
Our 2003 Mid-Bath was built with 6 seat-belt positions, and you might have the possibility to add more during construction. Two of those 6 are in the cab seats; 2 are at the dinette (front and rear facing); 2 are side-facing on the rear couches.
These are all legal seating positions in every state that I know of. In many states the non-belted positions are also legal.
The question moves from what is legal to what is a good idea.
Saying 'safety first' at any cost (money or convenience) is problematic.
Each of us would be safer in a Prevost than in a Lazy Daze. Does traveling in a Honda Fit (a common toad) mean we are being careless about our own safety or the safety of the our passengers? It would be safer to drive the RV everywhere and skip the toad.
We would also be statistically safer if we stayed home or chose to fly instead of drive to our destination.
Any kind of wilderness travel (hiking, biking, canoeing) could be made safer in larger groups, with additional first aid training, with a bigger first aid kit, with a satellite phone or spot device, or even with a private EMT trained local guide. Each of us chooses to take on some additional risk when we choose to take a walk in the wilderness.
We took our kids to Ecuador last summer where they traveled in unsafe vehicles, ate questionable foods, swam with sharks, greeted homeless dogs, could have been exposed to malaria or dengue or yellow fever, and did all kinds of things that don't meet US safety standards. No doubt they would have been safer at home. We had a blast and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
In reality, we all balance cost and convenience with the things we want to go, see, and do.
The RV industry produces A LOT of Class A and C motorhomes each year and, as mentioned above, none of them has more than 2 seats that are meet federal safety standards.
Many families feel comfortable traveling with more than 2 people in the RV, and you might decide that you're one of them.
Rich
'03 MB in NC
Welcome, Cousin Eddie.
Marie and I purchase our new 27' MB in June 2017 after ordering it in August, 2016. We had flown out to CA from MN and met with Todd, who walked us through everything. Marie is a retired GM engineer from Detroit, and Todd was nice enough to bring us through the work areas where they were building the models. There were three in progress at that time; one was getting the AC unit install on the roof, one was a chassis with the wooden frame being assembled next to it, and one was outside being painted. Marie observed how well organized the shop was and how detail-oriented everything seemed to be. We were able to hang out in the 27'MB, which is the model we were interested in and Todd took us out for a test drive, allowing us both the opportunity to drive it, as this was our first RV.
We then took it on a 9,000 mile trip from June through October and never had a problem at all. It was awesome. We took it to the Tireman to have stems installed for our tire pressure monitoring system and other than an oil change at 5,000 miles (GM insisted we didn't need an earlier one), and a tightening of a propane connection under the passenger side back bench which was leaking propane, she has been as good as gold.
We bought a king foam mattress pad to put on the back bed, which is stored in the overhead during the day (it's just the two of us), and making the bed and breaking it down so we have the back lounge is very easy. Marie likes to sleep in and I'm an early bird, so the ability to block off the rear bed area from the dinette area is a huge plus for us; I can read or do things on the computer while she is catching up on zzz.
Have fun at the mothership; meet Vince if you can (Todd introduced us to him at the end of our visit) and enjoy.
David
Just an update: We had a great time visiting the Lazy Daze factory. Todd answered all of our questions, took us on on a little tour through the assembly area, and left us alone to let everything soak in. There were two LDs in the show area, the 27' MB and a 27' rear bath. We also took a quick look inside a 24' in the assembly area. I stretched out on one of the rear couches in the MB and found it long enough to comfortably fit my 6'2" frame, so the issue of sleeping arrangements was settled. We were already performing assumptive closes on ourselves by the time we left...what color should we choose, ultraleather yay or nay, the off-menu hood mounted minigun, etc.
But. The seat belt issue continues to trouble us. As many of you mentioned, while there are a lot of seat belts, it's the seats themselves that are problematic. I asked Todd about how the belts were attached so he showed me the anchor design--no problem there. But the seats...hmmm. As Larry W pointed out, the dinette seat back is short and wouldn't provide protection from whiplash. Also discouraging was the fact that the table can't be easily removed. Since a forward facing dinette passenger wouldn't be wearing a shoulder belt, the table represents a potentially and literally serious headache during a frontal impact.
Well hell. We really liked the layout of the MB and the airiness of the RB, but we can't combine both attributes so our preference leans toward the MB. The fit and finish was great. Todd even dissuaded us from various options that in his opinion were unnecessary (sorry Todd, but I'm sticking with the minigun). We're still chewing on the seatbelt issue, though. Rich made some good points about risk, which is a constant topic with us motorcyclists. We do have a truck so a trailer might be an alternative, though I've never been a fan of trailers. And what's not to like about a Prevost other than the price and 45' of aircraft carrier parallel parking fun. Decisions, decisions.
Cousin Eddie, I understand your wanting to be safe as you can be with the seat back issue. You mentioned a Prevost in your post, but my belief is a Class C is much safer than a Class A, especially the cheaper ones. With the C, you get a big engine up front to protect you from frontal crashes, driver and passenger air-bags, and two cab doors in addition to the coach door to make exiting the coach quicker if necessary.
As an ex-motorcyclist myself, I think you are exposing yourself to more risk riding your bike, than you would driving an LD. I had many more "close calls" and near-misses on my bike than anything else I've driven including lights & siren in a fire engine.
All any of us can do is to make sure we prepare and do things to minimize risk. For example, I won't drive the LD at night. My eyes are fine with glasses, but still "older" than many. I developed an aversion to night driving when coming home one night, in our car, and hitting a deer that just popped out of some bushes. Little time to react, result dead deer and $2000 damage to the car. I believe that if it was daylight, I might have had another second or so to react and avoid the accident.
The point is the only thing we can do is try to minimize the probability of stuff happening. We can't eliminate risk whether in a car, trailer, Prevost, LD, or locked-up in our house. Good luck with your selection process and best wishes.
If one could configure interior along the lines of the Front Lounge models, a sliding ambulance-style jumpseat could provide extra approved central seating that could slide and pivot into lounge-area seating. The illustrated version is configured to sit over a wheelwell in an ambulance, but track could also be very low (almost, but not quite flush) and seat slightly raised. 3-4 feet of slide, and 8-position pivot. Price unknown, of course...
EVS Ltd. - Base Options (http://www.evsltd.com/learnmore.html)
... the off-menu hood mounted minigun, etc. ...
Decisions, decisions.
Drop the minigun, go for the 25mm Bushmaster - it's good for Sasquatch, Yeti & SoCal Freeways. :)
joel
If one could configure interior along the lines of the Front Lounge models, a sliding ambulance-style jumpseat could provide extra approved central seating that could slide and pivot into lounge-area seating. The illustrated version is configured to sit over a wheelwell in an ambulance, but track could also be very low (almost, but not quite flush) and seat slightly raised. 3-4 feet of slide, and 8-position pivot. Price unknown, of course...
EVS Ltd. - Base Options (http://www.evsltd.com/learnmore.html)
Those seats are very interesting. Thanks. I have to believe there's a compromise or doable modification would work.
Greeting, is there any way you could create a headrest with a board, foam and a cover bolted to the wall behind the passenger side seat to help with the whip lash issue for someone riding at the table but looking backwards? It sounds as if the lap belt is safely fixed, not sure what might be available to modify it to add a shoulder belt. It seems a shame not to get a LD Because of this issue. I would suspect that a to wable trailer might be less safe overall because they are generally so lightly constructed to save weight. Just wondering.
In a Mid-Bath, the dinette table can removed, you do so when converting the dinette into a bed.
Instead of trying to make the rear dinette bench safer, consider removing it and installing an auto bucket seat.
It wouldn't have a shoulder belt, due to the lack of secure place to install the upper mount but would supply some whiplash protection.
A better choice might be the ambulance seat or similar, with the built in seat and shoulder belt.
It would require designing a rigid mount to the floor, since all stress in a crash will be transmitted through the seat into the floor.
You might be able to talk Steve into not screwing the rear bench into the structure, so it could be easily removed for this modification but retained for a future change back to stock, if and when the rig is sold.
This would be a much more comfortable seat.
EVS Ltd. - 17803E Attendant Seat (http://www.evsltd.com/products/1900.html)
Larry
Greeting, is there any way you could create a headrest with a board, foam and a cover bolted to the wall behind the passenger side seat to help with the whip lash issue for someone riding at the table but looking backwards? It sounds as if the lap belt is safely fixed, not sure what might be available to modify it to add a shoulder belt. It seems a shame not to get a LD Because of this issue. I would suspect that a to wable trailer might be less safe overall because they are generally so lightly constructed to save weight. Just wondering.
Hmmm, that's not a bad idea, and one I hadn't thought of. I agree, it would be shame to pass on an LD! :'(
In a Mid-Bath, the dinette table can removed, you do so when converting the dinette into a bed.
Instead of trying to make the rear dinette bench safer, consider removing it and installing an auto bucket seat.
It wouldn't have a shoulder belt, due to the lack of secure place to install the upper mount but would supply some whiplash protection.
A better choice might be the ambulance seat or similar, with the built in seat and shoulder belt.
It would require designing a rigid mount to the floor, since all stress in a crash will be transmitted through the seat into the floor.
You might be able to talk Steve into not screwing the rear bench into the structure, so it could be easily removed for this modification but retained for a future change back to stock, if and when the rig is sold.
This would be a much more comfortable seat.
EVS Ltd. - 17803E Attendant Seat (http://www.evsltd.com/products/1900.html)
When we were looking at the models I was wondering if I could modify the dinette area to accommodate a DOT seat and seatbelt. One idea would be to remove the forward facing dinette bench and simply install an ISRI RV seat. An ambulance seat is an interesting possibility. It would all come down to dimensions and engineering the anchor directly to a robust portion of the frame. While we would lose the fourth spot at the table, it isn't indispensable real estate for the three of us.
Securely installing a DOT seat, with a built in should belt, would be the safest and probably the most comfortable option.
The peace of mind would be worth the cost.
It will be interesting to see how this works out, I don't remember anyone on the forum installing an rear, engineered passenger seat before.
Larry
It would be interesting to measure up a removable minivan/suv 3rd row seat, in relation to a standard dinette 'couch'. The type of seat I'm thinking about would be designed to mount on a flat floor of the minivan/SUV (probably with latches) and seat two with seat-attached belts. I haven't owned a minivan or small SUV in years, so I'm not really able to call out an appropriate candidate, but it seems there would be little difference between said seat and a dinette bench except for three key points: upholstery, under-seat storage, and the support ledge/cushion inventory allowing for bed conversion. Definitely not small matters, but the automotive seat would suffice for safety's sake if properly through-bolted with reinforcing plates and grade 8 hardware, etc. The clear downsides would be that if a coach needs long-term safe seating for more than two, it also needs sleeping quarters for more than two. Lack of quick and comfortable dinette conversion would be a deal-killer for most. Plus, doing this with DOT-rated seats doesn't automatically make it a DOT-approved thing, especially in DIY land.
Dinette seating/bed conversion is a staple in the RV world. I'm surprised there's not a modular, DOT-rated dinette frame product that all the mfg's use. But if they did their research DOT regs may also result in doing away with the table while underway.
Automobile rules don't apply. You can Google up DOT, RV mfg's and RIVA specs. Most state laws only cover the front seat passengers, and kids seats. But remember, not many school bus seat belts out there, either. Doesn't mean it's right though.
I haven't been closely following this thread recently, but something popped into my head from about ten years ago when my husband was almost completely paralyzed and confined to a wheel chair. I couldn't get him into our car to go to the Cancer Clinic for treatments, so the local minibus came to our door, and for a reasonable fee, wheeled him and his chair directly onto the bus via a ramp. Once inside the bus, his wheelchair was locked down to the floor with some sort of clamps.
I did not take note of how this was done, but presume that it was within some strict code since it was public transportation.
I'm wondering if a Lazy Daze model that encompasses two chairs would be able to somehow use this procedure to lock down an appropriate chair (or two) for accommodating additional passengers. Maybe a visit to a local bus company that provides such services would be enlightening.
Class B units frequently have one or two second row seating with regulation seat belts, so maybe something like that could be rigged in a Lazy Daze that accommodates two barrel chairs as standard. I'm envisioning regulation captain's chairs with appropriate safety features somehow integrated into the passenger side, with the ability to swing around and lock in place for travel, yet be able to face the aisle when parked.
Clearly I have no direct knowledge here; just thoughts. Maybe a visit to a handicapped equipment emporium might shed some light on possibilities. Clearly there are handicapped folks who are transported from place to place in safety, so maybe those same tactics are available for just regular use.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
We had a wheelchair van for my MIL for awhile. The main attachment points are installed just like LDs are (and also just like my pre-seatbelt sports car) with high-grade bolts thru the floor and generous backup plates behind them, acting as washers. This is what the seatbelts and chair tie-down points are attached to. But there was also a seatbelt that went around the chair occupant.
Higher-end systems involved a hefty locating pin on the base of the chair, and an equally-hefty clamping mechanism that immobilized the chair. But there's still an occupant seatbelt.
On edit: Neither of those two setups assume the wheelchair is a significant part of the safety equation. The belt is fastened to the floor, not the wheelchair. Even in my pre-safety-days sports car, the seat itself is rather flimsy -- much like a short wheelchair in construction. Two 1/4" bolts in shear hold it in place, and it can tilt up easily. The belt, however, holds the occupant and the seat to the floor.
End of edit...
Neither system is as good as starting with a well-designed automobile seat. In that light, the standard LD dinette is about the same as a wheelchair setup. Legal, but less safe.
Hi there Cousin Eddie!
I would hate for a seat issue to become a deal breaker for you.
I gather your position on the safety/seatbelt issue and how it could troublesome. I also applaud your concern for your daughter's safety!
That being said, though, I'm pretty much the complete opposite. Have any of your family members ever experience whiplash from an accident? I'm an excellent driver. I learned early on the value of defensive driving. I was also a long haul semi driver for 5 years. I drove from Los Angeles to Eugene, Oregon, then over to Bend, Oregon before heading south back to LA. I did that every week. I was over the California grapevine, a very dangerous downhill grade limited to 40 mph for semis. NOT 41, but 40! I also drove through pea soup Tule fog in the valley of central California for more hours than I care to remember. In Oregon, there were 3 different mountain passes I would drive up an over in the dead of winter in extreme conditions of ice and snow. I can tell you that there is NOTHING driving any kind of vehicle that will scare you worse than coming down off a mountain pass during a winter storm and looking in your rearview to see the back end of the trailer starting to drift sideways because it lost traction.
In all my 52 years of driving, I've only been in one accident! I was rear-ended in Denver, Colorado while driving my F150 Ford PU while stopped behind traffic at a stop sign. The guy who hit me was in a 4 door sedan doing about 35mph. He hit me with such force that he knocked my truck up in the air and it came down on top of his car. The cop on the scene had me put it in 4 wheel drive and literally drive off his car. It was totaled. Believe it or not, everyone laughed at the situation. Not only did I come out of that unscathed, but I don't remember my head even snapping back at all, let alone whiplash.
My point of all the above is DEFENSIVE driving. I cannot emphasize this enough. Many people say they do, but not really. Or maybe just "most" of the time. IMO, there are 4 types of drivers....An excellent driver like myself who always is anticipating their surroundings and other vehicle's actions. The second I start to become fatigued or distracted, I stop. A good driver who drives defensively but can become distracted. An average driver who obeys the traffic laws while driving from A to B. And lastly, a bad driver. They are focused on themselves and assume any other vehicles around are going to do the right thing. My niece falls into that category. I've never seen a worse driver. She had numerous fender benders and 5 major accidents by the time she was 20!! I would not allow my kids to ride with her.
I'm sorry. I ramble! Lol. What I'm saying is money well spent by anyone who hasn't already done it is a course in defensive driving. Preferably in your New RV. I think in some cases you may get a discount on your insurance too.
An LD weighs 14,500. Most passenger cars are going to be around 5000. Who do you think is going to get the better of it in a rear end collision! Lol. If a semi rear ends you then, yes. But the odds of that have to right up there with hitting the lotto. Most semi drivers are good drivers.
I would not give it a thought for my kids. Son is 26, daughter is 22. My only stipulation would be no moving around in the coach while underway and seat belt fastened.
But that's just me
The clear downsides would be that if a coach needs long-term safe seating for more than two, it also needs sleeping quarters for more than two. Lack of quick and comfortable dinette conversion would be a deal-killer for most.
Dinette seating/bed conversion is a staple in the RV world. I'm surprised there's not a modular, DOT-rated dinette frame product that all the mfg's use. But if they did their research DOT regs may also result in doing away with the table while underway.
Whatever mod I would do would be with an eye toward converting it back to stock at some point, so your advice about the lack of a dinette and resale is well-taken. I initially thought that it would be easy to remove the forward facing dinette bench but research tells me it ain't so simple. I think someone posted somewhere that the better solution is to have the factory simply not install the bench during assembly. I would store it until I convert the rig back to spec.
I'm wondering if a Lazy Daze model that encompasses two chairs would be able to somehow use this procedure to lock down an appropriate chair (or two) for accommodating additional passengers.
This would be The Perfect Solution but we need the additional couch for sleeping. Drat.
My point of all the above is DEFENSIVE driving. I cannot emphasize this enough.
So true. I ride a motorcycle and until recently I used to fly privately. Both can be incredibly fun but it only takes a microsecond of poor judgment or miscalculation or lack of situational awareness to ruin an afternoon.