Ruby sits in storage for the most part all winter. The solar panel keeps the batts in good order but there are parasitic draws that I try to keep under control. To me, the biggest parasitic draw is the propane sniffer being on at all times. Have others simply unhooked these, wrapping the open wires or adding an electrical cap to ensure they don’t short on anything?
Thanks, Dave
There is an internal fuse that can be removed.
Steve
If you disconnect the house batteries does that also disconnect the propane alarm?
Not if connected to shore power, and of course if you have solar, you would have to pull that fuse too.
Steve
When you say internal fuse are you saying it’s inside the guts of the propane alarm? Thx
Yes - pull the unit off with two screws to access it. Tape it to the front to remind you it is disabled before leaving on your next outing.
Steve
You da man Steve, thanks!!
Dave
When you say internal fuse are you saying it’s inside the guts of the propane alarm? Thx
Pull the fuse that powers the propane detector, it's located inside the Power Center, on the 12-volt side (right side).
The stock Power Center's door should have a list that indicates what each fuse powers.
The solar isn't capable of keeping the battery charged with the propane detector's minimal power draw?
Larry
It keeps up but why have the draw?
Also, when it snows the panel gets covered and I can’t always get to the facility right away to uncover and the last two snows started as rain leaving 1/4”+ ice; very hard to scrape off 9 feet off the ground, slippery roof and colder than a well diggers butt!! 🤣
"Also, when it snows the panel gets covered... "
???????? Now I am confused, I thought we were talking about two devices located 'inside' the coach, no? ::)
No, I’m talking about the propane detector, the batteries and the solar panel that tops off all things electrical.
The propane detector is something that doesn’t get shut off unless you pull the mentioned fuse. If you have no solar panels then you need a disconnect switch. We actually have one of those but don’t use it often. Even with a disconnect, the batteries slowly drain if the rig sits.
We have an 85 watt solar panel on the roof. It was not standard in 2004 by the way. Also we have an 80 watt GoPower suitcase panel. Anyway, the solar panel tops off the batteries and keeps them conditioned. There are parasitic draws while your rig sits and to me the biggest parasite looks like that sniffer. It bugs me to draw down the batts any more than necessary even if they get topped off the next day because:
- Although Nebraska is a generally sunny place there can be multiple days of clouds.
- in the winter I have to climb up on the roof and push the snow off each time it snows. It is a PITA.
- When we got Ruby I was 45. I’m not 45 anymore and I’m looking for ways to keep me off the roof. Kristine REALLY wants me staying off the roof! One way to help is to minimize the parasitic draws.
Dave
"...I'm looking for ways to keep me off the roof. Kristine REALLY wants me staying off the roof!"
I hear THAT! Wild horses couldn't get me up there these days even if I do live in an area that hasn't seen a snowflake in years and rarely falls below 35°. There was a day, but that was then! :-[
I have this LPG detector:
Amazon.com: MTI Industries 30-442-P-BR Safe T Alert 30 Series Propane/LP Gas... (https://www.amazon.com/Industries-30-442-P-BR-Alert-Propane-Alarm/dp/B003D32OK0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1517273258&sr=8-2-fkmr0&keywords=MTI+safe-T-alert+LPG+detector)
According to the specs, the 12V current draw for this particular unit is 90 mA, or 0.09 A. This amount of 'parasitic draw' seems insignificant to me, even with limited solar to keep the batteries charged (and if the batteries are in good condition), but other LPG detectors may draw more current than the MTI (Safe-T-Alert).
Electrical gurus, please correct/comment/clarify; thank you.
"Wild horses couldn't get me up there these days...."
----
It really is easier if you use a ladder, Steve! ;)
“It really is easier if you use a ladder, Steve!”
Dad had me up on roof last time to clean the solar panels, he just handed me the bucket of water from down below. 🤪
I have this LPG detector:
According to the specs, the 12V current draw for this particular unit is 90 mA, or 0.09 A. This amount of 'parasitic draw' seems insignificant to me, even with limited solar to keep the batteries charged (and if the batteries are in good condition), but other LPG detectors may draw more current than the MTI (Safe-T-Alert).
Electrical gurus, please correct/comment/clarify; thank you.
90 ma adds up to just over 2 amp/hours a day, a small drain that would take a couple months, with no charging, to draw down the coach's 220-amp/hour battery to the point where it needs charging.
If this is the only draw on a system with functioning solar, it isn't an issue.
It's the refrigerator's 'hidden' draw that surprises people. They can't believe it uses as much power as it does.
Larry
Okay, so what are the parasitic draws when “all items are off” but the batteries are connected? Certainly there is milliamp power to the idiot light panel above the stove, the radio, sniffer, the TV set up (?), the fridge even when off (?).
Thanks, Dave
"The propane detector is something that doesn’t get shut off unless you pull the mentioned fuse. If you have no solar panels then you need a disconnect switch. We actually have one of those but don’t use it often. Even with a disconnect, the batteries slowly drain if the rig sits."
"We have an 85 watt solar panel on the roof. It was not standard in 2004 by the way. Also we have an 80 watt GoPower suitcase panel. Anyway, the solar panel tops off the batteries and keeps them conditioned. There are parasitic"
Hi Dave,
I don't know how your batteries can drain if you use the battery disconnect switch.
Our 2003 has one 85 watt factory installed solar panel which normally keeps our batteries in good shape. But in the winter our rig is covered with an ADCO RV cover (in Ohio) from mid November until mid April, so I use the factory installed battery disconnect switch to turn off the batteries. I have *never* experienced a battery drain when the disconnect switch is turned off. And I never pulled the solar fuse or propane detector from the electrical system. When I want to exercise the genset, I turn the batteries back on and fire up the genset for 30-45 minutes, then turn the batteries off again. I have done that around once per month. And I have never had a battery problem.
I do use a hydrometer to check each cell on our Trojan batteries before covering our rig. I suspect that if your batteries are not holding a charge while they are disconnected, they are either old or weak. Or there is something wrong with your disconnect switch.
Steve K......eager for mid April
Nope, no problem. Batts are strong. Just trying to figure ways of making the rig better and keeping me off the roof in the winter.
Okay, so what are the parasitic draws when “all items are off” but the batteries are connected? Certainly there is milliamp power to the idiot light panel above the stove, the radio, sniffer, the TV set up (?), the fridge even when off (?).
The LED level indicator light has no parasitic loads, along with the radio and refrigerator, when they are powered down.
The TV has a low draw, if the remote works. The propane detector is the only thing that is constantly on.
It's real simple to eliminate any of these current draws, use the battery disconnect or pull the offending fuses and unplug the TV.
Larry
Our propane “sniffer” has, occasionally, started beeping and flashing red and green lights. When I push the button it resets and will not beep or flash for awhile. Questions: is it reaching the end of its life? Where do I get an exact replacement?
Dale from Downey. 2012, 27” RB.
Our propane “sniffer” has, occasionally, started beeping and flashing red and green lights. When I push the button it resets and will not beep or flash for awhile. Questions: is it reaching the end of its life? Where do I get an exact replacement?
Dale from Downey. 2012, 27” RB.
What I've read is their life expectancy is 5-7 years. The RV Doctor: Recreation Vehicle Safety Devices (http://www.rvdoctor.com/2001/01/recreation-vehicle-safety-devices.html)
The model number should be on the one you have and I bought my last two through Ebay and Amazon.
Jim
What I've read is their life expectancy is 5-7 years. The RV Doctor: Recreation Vehicle Safety Devices (http://www.rvdoctor.com/2001/01/recreation-vehicle-safety-devices.html)
The model number should be on the one you have and I bought my last two through Ebay and Amazon.
The detectors have their date of manufacture stamped on the back of the device.
Most are labeled to be replace within 60 months of installation.
This comes from the owners manual for our Safe-T-Alert detector
"End of Life Signal –Sensor has a 5 Year Service Life
All 30-441/442-P models include an End of Life (EOL) Signal indicating the sensor has reached the end of its service life and you must replace the alarm. "
Larry
"End of Life Signal ..."
What form does this "Signal" take? Does it chirp once and done, once and repeat? How is one to recognize this signal as opposed to the normal alarm. Perhaps it kisses you goodnight?
And should it have given the alarm some time ago, but keeps on functioning otherwise, is it still safe to use?
If it has only a 5 year life span mine should have expired long ago! ::)
It flashes green green red red then chirps. RV Propane Gas Detector Safe T Alert, 40-442-P.
"It flashes green green red red then chirps."
Once and done? Only?
If that happened 5 years ago, how would I know now? ::)
Once again, YouTube may help answer this question.
https://youtu.be/XUEObzXloxc
https://youtu.be/RMi9h8jFojM
And yes Dale according to the information presented in the second video, your detector is past its useful life and needs to be replaced. Hope this helps.
Kent
Hi Steve. I was working on a friends, new to him, 2001 MidBath, and I tested the propane alarm with a butane lighter. It worked, so I didn't replace it. I think back in 1999 to a little newer they actually didn't have an 'end of life' alarm. So test it with some butane 'a spark lighter, not lit' and yours may still work. If it was made by CC!, they have gone out of business, and the MTI 30-442-P (br) in brown is a good replacement and almost a perfect fit.
A few years back I tested a neighbors LD (a 2001 also), and his propane detector didn't work. So I tested mine, and it didn't work either. (Oops!) I bought two MTI's like the one Joan pointed out in reply #12 this thread. They say 90 ma. on the back, but mine draws about 74 ma. Both are still working. Date printed on the back was June 06, 2014. They are good for 5 years, before the EOL. That EOL alarm is two blinks of the red (alarm) LED, alternating with two blinks of the power on green LED. It is accompanied by an audible alarm. It can be muted once every 3 days, until it reaches 30 days and can't be muted. The instructions weren't clear, but apparently it is still functional until it hits the 30 day mark.
So the useful part of this thread. I went out and checked my CO monitor. It says on the back it has an EOL signal at 7 years from the date of first use. (Next time I will write that date on the back of the unit.) It will alarm, 'chirp-' every 30 seconds, show 'End' on the display if it has one, and will not work 'NON functional' at that point. Mine ( I didn't think it was that old!!! ) was made March 31, 2010. So depending on how long it sat in the store, or before I first installed it, could quit anytime. I'll order one right away. Wouldn't do to have it quit at Morro Bay.
The smoke alarm seems to be pretty old, no date on the back, but still passes the self test. That self test verifies all of the electronics. But I think that it is original from LD, so maybe It will get replaced too.
Hope this made things a little clearer. RonB
"I think back in 1999 to a little newer they actually didn't have an 'end of life' alarm."
RonB
Here's the deal... my rig is a 2004 and it still has the original 'Propane sniffer'! The last time I tested it, with a flameless gas match, it worked as advertised. It has also alarmed whenever I've had an actual leak (x2) and once with hairspray.
I'm interested enough that tomorrow I will retest it once again and, in the process, examine it to discover if it ever had an EOL feature. I may even have the original paperwork that came with it.
I earlier replaced both the smoke and CO alarms. 8)
Mine went bad a few years back. At that time the M’ship still had exact replacements so I ordered the part, sent them a check, they packaged up the part, they put it in the mail, it arrived on my doorstep. 😎
Love that M’ship and their wacky ways!!
Thank you Ron and Steve for a complete and comprehensive explanation of the alert systems. I’ve ordered a replacement for the propane alert system from amazon and I will check the smoke and CO devices tomorrow. I will just go ahead and teplace their batteries at least.
Be well. Dale from Downey.
"...tomorrow I will retest it once again ..."
Okay, to what I said yesterday, I located my gas match and with a good flame, blew it out. Placing the nozzle of the 'match' near the 'sniffer' it wasn't long before I had an alarm. So much for End of Life! That LP Detector came with the rig in Oct. 2004 and still functions as advertised. No telling how long it had sat in the LD storeroom prior to being installed in my coach.
Perhaps this EOL feature is a solution looking for a problem. How else would the manufacturer be able to acquire follow-up sales?
One thing I do know for sure is that it's not as easy crawling around on ones hands and knees on a cold linoleum floor as it once was, especially at the age of 82... yes, I did see my shadow this morning so sit back and wait another six weeks for better weather. Meanwhile I'll have another cup of hot chocolate to celebrate my birthday! 8) :D
Steve,
I commend you for gettin’ on down to the test. I’d rather be sniffin’ a hot cup of chocolate than propane any day.
Congrats and like Mr. Grace says, “You’ve done very well”. https://youtu.be/p6ddSA9lrkc
Kent
"...tomorrow I will retest it once again ..."
Okay, to what I said yesterday, I located my gas match and with a good flame, blew it out. Placing the nozzle of the 'match' near the 'sniffer' it wasn't long before I had an alarm. So much for End of Life! That LP Detector came with the rig in Oct. 2004 and still functions as advertised. No telling how long it had sat in the LD storeroom prior to being installed in my coach.
Perhaps this EOL feature is a solution looking for a problem. How else would the manufacturer be able to acquire follow-up sales?
Steve
Happy birthday.
Sensors lose their sensitivity as they age, they are suppose to detect flammable gases before they reach the explosive level.
Testing with a propane lighter isn't a accurate test, the level of gas you exposed your detector too, in a real world leak, would have filled the motorhome with an explosive mixture.
While your detector still 'detects' it is 14 years old, about 9 years past the manufacturers suggested replacement date, and it probably lacks the required sensitivity to do its job correctly.
I suspect the EOL feature was added in a later model of your detector.
FYI, as an former maintainer of a fleet of 4-gas detectors (required by OSHA for confined space entry), testing the sensitivity of gas detectors requires specialized equipment, and calibrated gases.
Larry
"Sensors lose their sensitivity as they age, "
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I read this first as Seniors lose their sensitivity as they age, but, hey, that could fit, too! ;)
“I read this first as Seniors lose their sensitivity as they age, but, hey, that could fit, too!”
We get sensitive to so many things as we and our toys and ancillary equipment age. As a teenager, just a few summers ago, I looked on as my dear Grandfather practically pounded every morsel of salt he could get out of the shaker onto his evening meal. “Boy he likes his salt”, I thought.
My Mom informed me that elderly people loose their sense of taste and salt becomes a problem for them. I determined then to slow the roll on salt as I got older in “flavor” of alternate seasonings.
It appears that even our LD appendage suffers the same fate as it gets older. Thank goodness our appliances come with service manuals and our friends at LDO are here to keep us well informed when we are a bit out of date.
Thanks. 😱
Kent