Hi everyone,
For several weeks I have been researching and reading everything I can get my hands on about this Amazing Class C! My husband is a High School Teacher and Baseball/Football Coach, and is in his last year and will be retiring in June 2018 (Lord willing and the creek don't rise, which means ALOT here in the Houston, Texas area!)
I am hoping to find a used 27 foot, MB so we can get out of here for the hot months of June-October. I am watching the RVTrader like crazy, but timing is such that we will most likely try to purchase around April or May 2018. I actually went ahead and got ourselves on the infamous brand new Lazy Daze "list" but am told that the wait time until taking delivery at this time is 12-15 months!!!!
In the meantime, I have a few questions for you veterans who I hope will choose whatever questions interest you.
1) Where is the outside shower located (when there is one) on the most recent, say 2006 - 2014, models? I have looked and searched and cannot find the answer. We have two dogs and I am hoping to have something by the entry door to wash their feet off.
2) Do you regularly boondock, and if so, do you use one or two solar panels, and for approximately how long can you last? Oh, and are these Onan generators a good brand?
3) Do you tow a car behind you, and if so does that severely hamper the amount of things you are able to pack in the LD?
4) Do you love the floor plan you chose for yourself, and if so, why?
Am I asking too many questions for campfire talk?
Thank you for your patience! I cannot wait to be able to put my kind of LD in my signature line!
Also, just because, GO ASTROS! (Is that allowed here?)
1. driver's side about in the middle
2. Yes. I feel getting the second optional solar panel is worthwhile . If you have adequate sun, it can keep your batteries charged day to day with 200 watts in most cases. If you are boon docking where you cannot dump your tanks and get fresh water anywhere... maybe a week but that depends on how many showers you want to take and how fast you fill the holding tanks. You may be able to stretch it a bit if you want to bring extra water but when the black tank is full, it's pretty much game over. If there is an rv dump station in the area and fresh water, your limiting factors then would be food and propane. If you don't need propane for the furnace and just used it for hot water, it would last a long time and not be a factor.
3. No. But, towing does not affect how much weight you can put in the rig. You can still go to the gross vehicle weight.
4. I like my mid bath 27' because you can close off the back part with the bathroom door giving you, in affect, two rooms. Also, with the couches in back, you don't have a bed blocking the cab overhead area as you do when front couches are made into a bed. If you have just two people with no one using the cab over area to sleep in, this would not be an issue.
No, that is not too many questions. Ask away! Frank
In the meantime, I have a few questions for you veterans who I hope will choose whatever questions interest you.
1) Where is the outside shower located (when there is one) on the most recent, say 2006 - 2014, models? I have looked and searched and cannot find the answer. We have two dogs and I am hoping to have something by the entry door to wash their feet off.
2) Do you regularly boondock, and if so, do you use one or two solar panels, and for approximately how long can you last? Oh, and are these Onan generators a good brand?
3) Do you tow a car behind you, and if so does that severely hamper the amount of things you are able to pack in the LD?
4) Do you love the floor plan you chose for yourself, and if so, why?
Am I asking too many questions for campfire talk?
Thank you for your patience! I cannot wait to be able to put my kind of LD in my signature line!
Also, just because, GO ASTROS! (Is that allowed here?)
Good luck with your search, there are a lot of folks looking for decent used LDs.
Questions
1- The MB's plumbing is all on the driver's side, that's where the outdoor shower is located, in the wrong spot IMO.
2- Solar usage and the of number panels needed varies, depending on your personal usage.
I consider two panels to be a minimum. Panels are not the expensive and more can be added .
In the winter, its hard to have too many panels, as their efficiency severally drops off.
Onan generator's are OK, a bit noisy but since they own the RV market, they are the only practical choice.
Too bad Honda and Yamaha have not entered the market.
3. As long as the total weight of the toad is 4000-lbs or less, LD's maximum tow rating, you can pack it with as much stuff as you want.
That said, it's possible to overload almost any LD, the MB's cargo capacity is adequate for most.
4. We have owned two short Front Lounge LDs. Our present 2003 23.5' FL has served us well for 15 years.
I consider it to be the best short RV, for a couple. We are still flexible enough to sleep in the bunk, which is outfitted for year round comfort, it's a very comfortable place to sleep.
The E450's chassis gives the Front Lounge (and its 24' Twin/King sibling) a cargo capacity that is very high for a Class C, they are the only LDs that are difficult to overload. The shorter length makes it more maneuverable and easier to park. Later models have the same tank and battery capacities, a consideration if boondocking.
We all have different needs and wants and there are many floorpans to choose from. I wouldn't make up my mind on one until after seeing the other floorpans, it is next to impossible to know how any of the floorpans will feel until you have spent some time in each.
Many love the Rear Bath for its open floorpan, the Rear Kitchen is the reverse of the MB and offers a whole new view of the world. The Mid Bath has the wonderful wrap around rear windows.
Each floorpan has it's advantages.
No floorpan is superiorr , all have similar capacities.
Happy hunting
Larry
Good luck with your search, as you read the forums there are plenty of accounts of others who have gone down this path before, and found a LD that works for them, with patience.
The Onan generator is as good an onboard generator as there is. It is probably the most often seen one. Like all onboard RV generators it is loud, but then it does have the power to run the AC unit. In a used Lazy Daze the fuel system for the Onan needs to be considered, as this is what seems to most often be problematic. Be sure the pre purchase inspection runs and tests the generator.
We don’t tow a vehicle, and manage to drive our 27’ midbath almost everywhere we want to go. A 24’ would be almost like driving a dual wheel pickup, very nimble. But we too enjoy the two separate areas of the midbath.
We are scheduled to pick up our new Rear Bath at the end of November or early December. We ordered it with the extra solar panel, because we do a lot of boondocking. That said, I have yet to see how well it actually fuinctions, so I defer on that question.
We have owned many RVs over the years, and all came standard with outside shower. On the new LD, we declined that option. We never used the showers on the others, and do not forsee using them on the new LD. We always travel with one or two large dogs, and often with up to five grandkids of various sizes. Still, muddy/sandy feet and all, we never used the shower. Especially when boondocking. We try to conserve water in those locations. Also, I have never found the water pressure of an RV shower to be sufficient to wash down retrievers and labs, or any thick-coated pooch. Another long waste of boondocking water. If you are in a site that has water, just carry a hose and clean that way. All that said, we found one of the handiest and more efficient methods to clean pooch and kid feet is to leave 2 large 20-liter collapsible buckets half full near the entry door. Hang an old beach towel nearby. Dip each foot in and pull out quickly, then do same in second bucket. Gets rid of all the loose stuff. Only lathering soap will really seal the deal, but soap is an anathema to dogs and children -- especially those romping about in the lakes and mountains and beaches. We just fill them with lake or river water. We live and camp mainly in the west, and most of the water is clear, even if not potable. We have been using two of these for several years and love them. When not in use, we either fold them away, or pack them with other things. They are also handy for packing for a haul down to a beach or lakeside picnic spot. We buy ours at REI. Here is the link: Sea to Summit Kitchen Sink - 20 liter - REI.com (https://www.rei.com/product/758051/sea-to-summit-kitchen-sink-20-liter)
We occasionally tow a Jeep Cherokee. It might be too much for our new rig, so I defer on that question, as well.
We occasionally fire up the generator. They are louder than a portable, but I believe more functional. One of the reasons we opted for the extra solar was to avoiding the need to use the generator as much (or, even as little) as we do.
In cold weather or snow, we heat with a catalytic heater. No generator or solar is needed to run fans, etc.
We chose the RB for the open design. There are many opinions in this area, so go with what works best for you.
Oh, and about the Astros . . . We live in Northern California, so naturally detest the Dodgers, and root for any team that is playing against them. About a year ago, I did express my disdain for the Chavez Ravine crew-in-blue, and I don't think the LD folks were very appreciative of that. You might want to tone down the Astro-talk when in Mont Claire, especially if they win this series! ;)
Eek! Thanks for the friendly warning about toning down the Astros talk. :-) I hadn’t thought about that LD Connection in Southern Cal!
Truthfully we have a TON of respect for the Dodgers and feel like the matchup is pretty even, making it such an exciting series! And yet, being that this is only our 2nd time to be in the WS - and our first WS win in franchise history - it’s hard not to be very happy and proud of our young team.
That said, I promise not to be an obnoxious fan. Hee hee.
"No floorpan is superior , all have similar capacities."
----
'Coach Wife' said that their interest was in a 2006-2014 MB, so this caution may not apply to them, but may to another 'seeker'.
Just a heads up: If one is interested in a TK, be aware that Lazy Daze mis-represented the black tank capacity of this model as 24 gallons instead of the actual capacity of 18 gallons until the 2005 model year; at that time, the spec sheet was corrected to show the true capacity. The increased black tank capacity to 28 gallons (and grey to 32 gallons) for the Twin King did not occur until the 2010 model year.
The capacity of the black tank in earlier models of TKs may not be an issue for those who have convenient access to a dump station, but for longer-term boondocking, particularly for two people, the small black tank can be a limiting factor.
Good luck finding a nice used LD.
I don't know if it is relevant to the model LD you are looking for, however, I thought I'd let you know that on our 2016 24-foot TK, the outdoor shower is on the passenger's side. You can just see it in this photo directly above the rear tire http://jimlangley.net/LazyDazeSized/LazyDazeFactory1sttripside.jpg
Happy LD hunting,
Jim & Deb
2016 TK
Eek! Thanks for the friendly warning about toning down the Astros talk. :-) I hadn’t thought about that LD Connection in Southern Cal!
That said, I promise not to be an obnoxious fan. Hee hee.
I didn't want to say anything to discourage or insult a newcomer but as a 4th generation Southern Californian, we are loyal to the Dodgers.
I well remember when the Dodgers moved here, I was seven years old and fell instantly in love with the voice of Vin Scully.
A good percentage of LDs and their owners live in California, now you know.
FYI- any E450 LD can tow your Cherokee, stock it weights are 3500-lbs.
We have pulled a built 2001 Cherokee, that weighs 4000-lbs, for around 80,000 miles.
Larry
Thanks everyone, your knowledge and willingness to answer our questions are very helpful! And, I also was able to find some more useful information in the archives as well. Take care and thank you all again!!!
We have been off-the-grid for over three months more than once. It's the need for fresh water and a dump that makes us spin the wheels. We have 3 solar panels. We consider two adequate in the southern US during the summer. Five or more would be nice in the NW! We agree with the previous recommendations and wish to add what we consider a can't do without it item. That's a battery monitor. One that shows you how many amps you are using and how many amps remain in the batteries. There is no substitute for one. I think Victron is the current favored brand. It will have to be installed after delivery. I am sure there are good places to have it done, but the only one I know of is AM Solar in Oregon. You could have them install the solar panels and the monitor. Why? LD will put one of the panels in the shadow of the AC which will limit its purpose in the morning or afternoon should you be park facing on the magnetic poles. Also AM Solar knows a lot about the subject.
Water, we can make it five days, six in a pinch, before our tanks are empty. We have collapsible water bags and have an extra water pump to pump from the bags into the tank. That can extend us a few more days IF we can dump our gray water in place. We use more water than most because we cook and we use dishes. [We detest paper plates for "fine" dining] We have never reached capacity in the black tank.
That's our two cents worth.
Water, we can make it five days, six in a pinch, before our tanks are empty. We have collapsible water bags and have an extra water pump to pump from the bags into the tank. That can extend us a few more days IF we can dump our gray water in place. We use more water than most because we cook and we use dishes. [We detest paper plates for "fine" dining] We have never reached capacity in the black tank.
We had the same issue with the gray tank filling before the black.
Installed a transfer pump to move water from the gray tank to the black.
It is used often before dumping, if the black tank is under half full.
A full black tank will empty more completely due to the greater flow.
Holding tank transfer pump | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/albums/72157602095132380)
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1200/1415576211_499dbe2f20_m.jpg)
Larry
As Larry said, the amount of solar you will need varies. Some find one panel to be enough. Some prefer two. I have five, and if I could fit a sixth up there, I would have six, but then, I use a lot of electrical power, running a DVR 24/7, a TV for quite a few hours every day, and a CPAP machine all night long. Add to that, several hours a day on the computer, speakers for the computer and TV, and the demand for power builds. Yes, I could and have managed with less, but living this way is not, to me, about denying myself stuff.
As to the floor plan, I have been full time in my Midbath since November, 2008, and if anything, I like it more now than when I first got it. We have made adjustments to each other.
Ken F in NM
"2) Do you regularly boondock, and if so, do you use one or two solar panels, and for approximately how long can you last?"
"How long you can last" depends solely upon how much electrical current you require and that is dependent upon your lifestyle. With one or two panels and utilizing nothing but the water pump, the fridge and a single light may allow you to 'last' a couple of days (experience speaking here). With three or more panels you should last three or more days.
A general rule of thumb is one 100w solar panel for each 100ah (amp hour) of battery capacity. For example: I have 225ah of battery capacity, hence two 100w panels should suffice. I currently have three and my batteries are normally recharged by noon the following day. :)
Steve S, your amps must be stolen by aliens, as we can go indefinitely on solar.
In addition to the water pump, the fridge, and a single light, we use the furnace, leave the radio on, sometimes watch TV use a CPAP, and always have two laptops on. If we are parked on the Pacific coast after three days of fog, we will have to use the generator. But, in the sunny SW, we are fully charged before noon and never drop below 80% capacity.
All the lights we use are LED, so it makes little difference if they are on or not compared to incandescents.
We presently own our 4th LD, 30ft IB Ann Ed, and just love this model for us. Owned initially a 1999 MB, and it closed in on us with dogs. When looking for your LD to purchase try looking on Craigslist. On the top upper left side you can put in Lazy Daze then just keep changing the City as it comes up to view. Of course California has the most for sale, then Oregon, Arizona and possibly Washington State. We found three of our LD's through Craigslist, but you have to be fast and know what you want. Have you been in a Lazy Daze? If not, maybe try and find them and go look if close to your home even if it isn't the year you want just to walk in and see how different Models feel. The Models don't change, but there is a big difference in the floor plan even within the same size Model.
One of the most important things for us is the Bed and what it takes to make it and what room is left to walk around. We really like the 30ft for the additional space for longer trips, has a door to close so when my husband is sleeping I don't bother him up in the middle of the night in the living room. Also it has a walk around Queen Size, which is easy to make.
We now have three dogs, (Boston Terriers ranging is size from 18lbs to 38lbs); the more room the better-
It is a big decision but worth the effort to find the right Model for you.
In the vein of deciding which model you want, there is no better opportunity to investigate the various floorplans available new and used than to visit our March 2018 get-together in Morro Bay State Park. We have 'open-house' for several hours both friday and saturday, and lots of friendly folks willing to show you around. Free parking across the street at the marina. Typically 35 to 60 rigs will show up with all years and floorplans. No MAJOR airports nearby, but the drive up from LAX is nice once LA traffic is out of the way. Details in the 'Destinations' forum here.
Steve
Don wrote, "Steve S, your amps must be stolen by aliens, as we can go indefinitely on solar... in the sunny SW, we are fully charged before noon and never drop below 80% capacity."
I too was puzzled by Steve's statement that "With one or two panels and utilizing nothing but the water pump, the fridge and a single light may allow you to 'last' a couple of days." That seems unduly pessimistic. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something, but the experience of people I know is much closer to Don's than to Steve's. (I won't cite my own experience, because I have more than two panels.) With 200 watts of solar panels and assuming your batteries are in good shape, you should be able to boondock almost indefinitely as long as sunshine is available at least four days out of five. As others have said, your limitation is likely to be your black tank capacity.
I'd like to make an important point about buying a new Lazy Daze with solar panels. If you think you may be doing more than occasional dry camping or boondocking, don't have the factory install multiple solar panels. It has already been pointed out that they put them in less-than-optimal locations, where they are shaded for at least part of the day by the air conditioner. Moreover, they install them in such a way that it's difficult and labor-intensive to add any more panels--and if you fall in love with boondocking, you will probably want more sooner or later.
If I were buying a new LD, I'd try to get the factory to install everything except the panels (i.e., controller and wiring). Failing that, I'd ask to have solar panels omitted entirely, or ask for just one panel. Then I'd have a reputable outfit such as AM Solar or one of their certified installers add more panels, using AM Solar mounting feet, in better locations on the roof.
If your planned RV travels will be from one full-hookup RV park to the next, with perhaps an occasional overnight stay at a Walmart or Cracker Barrel, then feel free to ignore this advice. Solar power won't be a big part of your life. But if you'd like to get out in the wilderness away from noisy neighbors, then plan on at least 200 watts of solar power (more is always better) and have it done right--not the LD factory's way.
"...as long as sunshine is available at least four days out of five."
Without going into a long dissertation on solar use I tried to present a scenario that would be 'real world'! You are not going to have full sunshine on those panels for any number of reasons... at the Morro Bay GTG two years ago I was unlucky enough to be placed under two of the largest Eucalyptus trees you can imagine. Despite having arrived with a full charge on the batteries I was running the generator by the 3rd day, trying to play catch-up. And with inclement weather, rain or snow, things get worse real fast. On Mother's Day one year in the Sierra, after having arrived with blue-bird skies, I awoke to find 8" of new snow covering everything, including those solar panels I had hoped would recharge my batteries! It ain't a perfect world. ::)
at the Morro Bay GTG two years ago I was unlucky enough to be placed under two of the largest Eucalyptus trees you can imagine. Despite having arrived with a full charge on the batteries I was running the generator by the 3rd day, trying to play catch-up.
You may have limited choice of sites, but many of us do a Google Earth search to locate sites away from the trees.
Steve
"...many of us do a Google Earth search to locate sites away from the trees."
Yup, been there, done that! But when one needs a handicap site the choices are even slimmer. Even photos of a site often do not show tree cover that would impede solar panel usage. ::)
If I were ordering a new Mid-Bath (I'm familiar with the roof layout on that model), I would have the factory install no solar.
I think you could make a nice system from 1 single large 24v panel (200-280 watts), a Morningstar MPPT controller, and a Xantrax Battery Monitor.
I did something similar 5 years ago with a 200 watt 12v panel and a PWM controller. It has 1 pair of wires, short cable runs, and no combiner box. It also matches well with the size of the factory battery bank.
This isn't a maxed out system that you can run your vacuum and microwave from, but I think it's a solid system for a lot of people.
Solar technology (and pricing) changes so fast, and there are so many different panel sizes available now that I think it makes sense to match the size of the panel to the space on the roof instead of takes a standard size panel and trying to fit it onto a lot of different roof spaces.
Example system I think would fit my MB (needs, wires, mounting feet, odds and ends):
https://www.solar-electric.com/kyocera-ku265-6mca-265-watt-multicrystal-solar-panel.html
https://www.solar-electric.com/mosumpsochco.html?___SID=U
https://www.solar-electric.com/xantrex-84-2030-00-linklite-battery-monitor.html?___SID=U
Rich
'03 MB in NC
I would prefer to have multiple solar panels, instead of one big one. Several panels are less likely to be effected by shading.
If one panel is shaded, the others will continue producing power. Any shading on a panel will decrease or totally eliminate that panel's output .
With smaller panels, more can be installed, fitting into the oddball spaces between the hatches, A/C and antennas.
Installing the panels after delivery is a good suggestion, in retrospect, I wish I had done so, eventually ending up redoing the whole system.
On our 23.5' FL, there is enough room for 560-watts of panels even with the kayak racks using a lot of room.
When the panels are installed later, they can be installed in the most logical positions to stay out of the shadows and to maximize the amount of panels.
IMO, too many panels is just enough.
I suggest installing more panels than you think you need. In the winter, it is very hard to keep the batteries fully charged due to the short days, the low angle of the sun and a higher electrical use (lights, furnace, more indoor time on the the computer or watching TV).
Larry
Flip-down (or flip-up) panels on the fake front windows, then? Granted, structure, sealing, and deployment would all have their challenges, but enough space for two full-size panels.
Chip
When I was calculating the wattage of panels for another project, I used the total estimated daily energy needs in amps and then used the estimate of 2.5 X (total daily energy needs in amps) = rooftop panel wattage. This assumes a 40% efficiency to account for clouds, foggy mornings, etc., as well as 12 hours of sun per day and a 12 volt system (they conveniently cancel). The tug uses about 110 A per day and the equation results in 275W of panels, so I put up 300W and it keeps things charged up most of the time. Parking under a tree goofs the entire idea up, but I rarely anchor the tug under a tree.
This has been sufficient to keep things charged up under most circumstances. With several foggy days in a row, the Honda EU 2000 boosts the batteries back up.
HD
Coachwife,
Our Lazy Daze is our fourth RV and we really like it. We have a 27MB and my wife loves it. I like it, but only because Lazy Daze doesn't offer some things that I value (high clearance, 4X4, diesel).
Our other three RV's had outside showers and even though we had three children and one or two German Shepherds, we NEVER used the outside showers. They were a good idea, but in reality, we never used them.
After three other RV's, I have to admit that the Lazy Daze is the best thought out and constructed of the bunch, and the best built that we have seen anywhere. We have had no major problems, which is rare among RV owners. I may come to love it with time.
I don't believe that you will go wrong with the Lazy Daze regardless of the model. The 200W solar that we have is generally sufficient and the generator will charge things up if it a cloudy day or you need AC.
Retirement is much, MUCH better than we imagined. Every day is Saturday. Our schedules are packed with things we enjoy doing. I miss the students, but never the shifting vagaries of political correctness, any administrator, testing, or grading.
HD
Retirement is much, MUCH better than we imagined. Every day is Saturday.
Except for Sunday, Harold!
Well, let's see: If every day is Saturday, then on the last Sunday, you get to be in church. In a box.
Keep enjoying those Saturdays!
HD
Retirement, bah humbug!
I'm working on my 2nd retirement. Shortly after the beginning of my 1st retirement I realized I had to go to work for a living. :(
Retirement only gives you the opportunity to spend money faster. As to Saturdays and Sundays and all major and minor holidays (Halloween excepted) I am exiled to the house in order to avoid the thundering hoards of wage-slaves. Camping is still fun M-F and I love watching the road warriors come pouring in on Friday night, only to disturb my tranquility for the next day and a half. >:(
Happy 1st Saturday!
Coachwife,
My DW and I have enjoyed our ‘15 27’ RB for almost 2 years now. Open concept with plenty of room to spread out. I liked the MB but found it too closed in for me. My wife couldn’t stay inside the floor model at LD for more than a few minutes before she walked me over to the RB model. For us it was love at first sight.
We have two solar panels and all the options except the auto sat dish and the electric step.
The outdoor shower is just left of the coach door (passenger/curb side of the coach). We use it occasionally and I wouldn’t want to be without it.
It’s been stated before...see all the models you can before you make your final decision, if you can.
Harold is a Saturday man...each and every day of his new-found retirement. Personally, I’m a Wednesday kind of guy. It’s my favorite day of the week. If you want to avoid the craziness of the world... take a Wednesday off. I’ve been doing so for over twelve years, now.
I like to consider myself semi-retired although I still put in four days a week at the ol’ 9-5. The good thing is my work week includes time swinging the hammer while the weekend warriors are tearing up the turf. My weekend...three days off with “hump day” in the middle.
This schedule allows me to stretch two days off into five. By the time the crowds are filling the campground, I’m packing up and leaving the throngs to themselves. Their coming while I’m going. Works for me.
Just sayin’
Kent
No one has mentioned the importance of a battery charger, be it a 14.4 volt automatic, 14.8 volt or even 15.4 volt. The converter charges at 13.7 volts. The higher voltage will keep your generator runs short and allow the solar panels to top things up. Above 90% charge the batteries can only accept about 150 watts which is a terrible waste of a 4000 watt generator.
Don't forget the battery monitor. None of this offered by LD.
"No one has mentioned the importance of a battery charger..."
And you're point is? ::)
The point is 200 watts of solar is not enough to keep a battery up (depending on your electrical use, certainly not mine with satelite receiver and TV.) With a battery charger one hour of generator run in the morning will set you up for solar to finish it.
Running the generator to charge the battery through the converter is a waste of generator. Using a battery charger is a bit better. A lot better time wise.
The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE « HandyBob's Blog (https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/) (Most RV owners are not aware of the info in this link)
You don't have to agree with everything in the link but I would certainly recommend a battery monitor with percent charge read out. Amps in and out is also very nice. Yes, most RV owners believe running the generator is charging their battery. It is, barely. In my case 14 amps vs 39 amps initially with the battery charger, depending on state of charge.
If you plug into shore power disregard this note. 24/7 at 13.7 volts will charge your battery.
Depends on how you camp and how you consume electricity. Taking the need for temperature modification out of the equation (not camping in very hot or very cold climates) we use very little electricity when we camp because we don’t watch TV much, don’t have a satellite dish etc. Thus, when we boondock our 85 watt panel keeps us topped off most of the time. When shaded or whatnot we pull out the 80 watt suitcase panel too.
Know thyself and thy camping style and build your rig accordingly.
hbn7hj writes:
>The point is 200 watts of solar is not enough to keep a battery up (depending on your electrical use, certainly not mine with satelite receiver and TV.) With a battery charger one hour of generator run in the morning will set you up for solar to finish it.
We don't have a sat rec or watch much TV. We do run two laptops, the usual LED lights, etc. In the SW, we are back to 100% before noon. Later in the afternoon in say the PAC NW from our solar panels.
Running the generator to charge the battery through the converter is a waste of generator.
It takes forever, as does the alternator. But, sometimes it's the only way.
The RV BATTERY CHARGING PUZZLE « HandyBob's Blog (Most RV owners are not aware of the info in this link)
Good reading
...I would certainly recommend a battery monitor with percent charge read out.
Oh yes.
If you plug into shore power disregard this note. 24/7 at 13.7 volts will charge your battery.
This is where you lose me. When would you use a battery charger??
How about a display name hbn7hj?
(I think it's Harry, based on his signature line.)
Sadly, not everyone is blessed with the sunny skies you folks have out west. Clouds, sun angle, trees, etc. play a part, too.
An external battery charger powered by the generator gets the job done faster and better than the generator-inverter-charger setup that is factory issue.
The 13.7 V approach works fine if you're plugged in 24/7, as mentioned. Speed sort of doesn't matter if you've got all day and you don't need to run your generator to get the juice.
Chip
No one has mentioned the importance of a battery charger, be it a 14.4 volt automatic, 14.8 volt or even 15.4 volt. The converter charges at 13.7 volts. The higher voltage will keep your generator runs short and allow the solar panels to top things up. Above 90% charge the batteries can only accept about 150 watts which is a terrible waste of a 4000 watt generator.
Don't forget the battery monitor. None of this offered by LD.
Battery chargers are sold by their amperage output, not by their voltage output.
A smart charger will vary the amperage, as the batteries needs change, during the charging process.
There will be a range of voltage from 13.2-VDC to over 15-VDC, when the batteries are being equalized.
At the 90% charge level, the batteries internal resistance, or impedance, will limit the charge amperage to a very low level, no matter what charger you are using.
To minimized generator run time, the long accepted procedure is to charge the battery to the 90% level, when using the generator, and then letting the solar top it off.
The last 10% of change can take several hours to finish, because the battery only allows a low charger rate, due to its rising internal resistance.
Stock converters in pre 2015 LDs have 45-amp charger, while the later models have a 70-mp charger, the one that has cooing fan running constantly.
Better aftermarket converters are available.
Different battery chemistries have different charging strategies, for optimal performance .
Later models LDs come with AGM batteries, They will accept higher charge rates, than regular lead-acid batteries, but can easily be overcharged, which dries out the non-replaceable electrolyte, destroying an expensive battery.
Poorly regulated converters or solar chargers can damage or destroy your batteries, especially AGMs.
And yes, if you are going to boondock a lot, a battery capacity meter is a must for the longest battery life.
The meter will let you know when you must charge, normally when battery is 50% or more discharged.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/organize
Victron BMV-700 Battery Monitor - - Amazon.com (https://www.amazon.com/Victron-BMV-700-Battery-Monitor/dp/B00MJ9TAN8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1510162547&sr=8-1&keywords=Victron+BMV-700+Battery+Monitor&dpID=51mfuHsG-kL&preST=_SX300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch)
Larry
"Later models LDs come with AGM batteries, They will accept higher charge rates, than regular lead-acid batteries, but can easily be overcharged, which dries out the non-replaceable electrolyte, destroying an expensive battery. Poorly regulated converters or solar chargers can damage or destroy your batteries, especially AGMs."
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I hope that those with AGMs heed this advice and learns/understands the requirements of AGM batteries. Plopping a couple of AGMs into the compartment without updating/matching the converter and the solar charger to the batteries' needs will result in premature battery death; as Larry states, AGMs are very sensitive to overcharging, and an 'old tech' converter and charge controller will fry those batteries into very pricey doorstops in a short time. We don't all have to learn the hard way! ;)
(I think it's Harry, based on his signature line.)
An external battery charger powered by the generator gets the job done faster and better than the generator-inverter-charger setup that is factory issue.
Chip
Thanks, Chip, for explaining what Harry was getting at. I was a bit lost there, with the same question as Don. 🤔 —Jon
Chip writes: An external battery charger powered by the generator gets the job done faster...
AH HA Never thought of that. Wondering now if I will ever think it again. Old dogs.....
I get about 15amps from the converter and my cheap charger is rated at 15amps also.
I have used the battery changer to start the truck more than once running off the genset. When someone stops for the day and does not open driver's door and triggering the Lights On alarm. [Why I don't like the lights on signs] Some fine day I will install a Lights On alarm.