We are about to take off on a cross country trip to the east coast and the Maritime Provinces and would like to have some recommendations for a water filter. The one we have now, which needs replacement is a Camco, bought at the Mothership when we picked up our rig 2 years ago. The Camco filter is a 100 micron and doesn't say anything about being a bacterial filter. What are your suggestions for a filter and water purification?
Ian & Jean, "Silver Fox", Seattle
2015 27MB
Ian and Jean,
I posted the following in the Technical section thread "another Water pump thread"
It is our practice to travel with a full tank of filtered water and only drink, wash and shower with water from the rig. When I get below one third of a tank, I refill the tank through a two canister filter. I have a 5 micron sediment filter to remove the big stuff like protozoans, algae, and hard sediments and a combo filter that has a carbon filter for chlorine and lead with a 0.5 micron filter to remove all bacteria, most cysts and some viruses. I use filters from this source.
Cartridges for Standard Canisters: RV Water Filter Store
They are geared to RV's and their prices are competitive. Customer service is excellent.
We have had the personal experience of being in a camp in the northern Sierras in California where the municipal water was infected with Giardia. I had used the water in the camper, as I always do in camp, but my brother and his family drank and showered with the water from the faucet. Their entire family got Giardia, which is a pretty miserable experience. My family got Giardia while camping and it is an experience that we NEVER, EVER want to repeat! After that experience, all water that goes into our tank gets filtered. The likelihood of municipal, or well water being infected is low, but the infrequent possibility of getting Giardia, or most recently Cryptosporidium is absolutely not worth the trouble. Cryptosporidium is small, often not tested for in many communities, and doesn't get killed by many municipal treatment plants. It is becoming more prevalent every year.
Communitywide cryptosporidiosis outbreak associated with a surface water-supp...
Just my .02 and other's mileage will vary, but it is pretty easy to prevent waterborne illness.
HD
Ian & Jean,
I've been using the "Camco Blue" since we got our rig. I'm not sure which direction I'd go from there, but I have been following Andy's suggestion of keeping a previously used Blue in the refrigerator until it's next use. This will forestall algae growth in the filter element that would otherwise grow quickly if kept in a storage bay (which I used to do).
Joan had mentioned a popular filter a few days ago, and I found it available on Amazon and was ready to make the switch but for two reasons. 1) I don't believe it was designed to attach to a fresh water hose and 2) I didn't see any specifics as to the particulates it filtered. It only mentioned that it made the tap water taste fresh.
So I'm with you. What alternatives are out there?
Kent
Harold,
Can you provide some specifics on how the filtration system is implemented? Does it connect to the fresh water hose and fill the LD fresh water tank from the outside like the Camco Blue?
I would prefer to filter the water completely prior to its introduction into my fresh water tank. While an under counter water filter may be desirable, I would think it best to keep any contaminants from ever entering the system. Kind of like preventative health.
I believe this is the link to which you are referring ... RV Water Filter Store (https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/SFNT.htm)
Kent
Kent, Amazon doesn't have the Omnipure filter that I mentioned; the filter I use is the Omnipure K5667 inline filter. I don't order replacements with fittings because the brass fittings that came with the original filter I bought will last forever! This filter does remove sediment; in some product descriptions, this is stated. In others, that information is absent.
I did order two K5667 filters from the RV Water Filter Store; I did not receive a call back from my inquiry (the former owner returned calls and answered emails promptly), but I went ahead and ordered as a "test case". If the service is unsatisfactory, I will find another vendor.
I have no experience with Camco filters; the Omnipure inline filters work well, so unless there is are good reasons for changing brands, I'll stick with the Omnipure.
YMMV, of course.
"I don't order replacements with fittings because the brass fittings that came with the original filter I bought will last forever!"
"I have no experience with Camco filters; the Omnipure inline filters work well..."
Joan,
My mistake about the K5667 filter on Amazon. I saw the L5667BB in line filter and thought they were the same product. (Photo attached)
Am I to understand then that the K5667 "in line" filter attaches to the "white" fresh water hose and fills the fresh water tank from outside the rig?
I use brass screw on fittings and a quick release brass fitting on the Camco Blue filter which makes for a simple on & off attachment. I'm always open to improving on a good thing. Good advise from trusted friends is always helpful.
I am curious about testing the water at the inside tap for contaminates and will have to do some research on that issue. As it stands, I have alternated between filtered water in the tank for traveling and chlorinated unfiltered tap water between journeys as a means of decontaminating (if necessary) the fresh water tank. We do use our fresh water tank for cooking and have never experienced any ill effects.
Crossing my fingers really isn't good enough.
Kent
Yes Kent, that is the site I bought my filter from. (Sorry the link didn't cut and paste correctly when I brought it over from the other thread). I checked their prices against Amazon and several water filter sources and they are competitive and give really good customer service. Also, when I called and left a message with a question, the owner called me back the following day with great information and insights.
The filter I assembled (you buy the pieces from the filter store and put it together at home. It is easy) connects to my water hose coming from the tap at the camp site hose bib. I then made a short (less than 10 foot section of hose with a little wiener at the end that connects to the clean side of the filter and fits into the fill-fitting on the Lazy Daze.
I have a two cartridge system with a RV-SED5 sediment filter in the first canister. This filter takes the water down to 5 microns, which removes algae, protozoans, many bacteria, and all of the particulate junk coming in through the hose bib. This filter has really good flow and I have checked the filter element several times visually and measured the flow and it is still up to specs.
My second canister originally had a CBC-KDF filter element. I initially liked the combination of the carbon filter to remove lead, chlorine and hydrogen sulfide tastes, as well as the .5 micron filtration element with a bacteriastatic feature. This filter will essentially remove anything that we don't want in our bodies including viruses, and cysts. Unfortunately, this filter also tends to plug up if you don't store it properly and mine plugged completely in three months and less than 300 gallons of water.
I replaced this filter with a F1pb .5 micron filter. This is also a combo carbon filter element that removes all chlorine, lead, H2S taste, and any particles larger than 1/2 micron, so virus and cysts are eliminated. The flow rate is higher and it isn't affected as much by how you store it. So far I think it is great.
I will share that I worked as a seasonal technical writer for a summer for the San Diego County Water Authority looking at contamination present in municipal water sources at various homes and sites with increasing distance from the treatment plant. After that summer, I ALWAYS filter our drinking water in the house, RV, and boat. It is amazing how much E.coli bacteria (an indicator of fecal coliform contamination) was present in tap water at that time, and I suspect things haven't changed much. That stuff shouldn't be in our water and the levels weren't high, but any is too much. In addition, I don't believe that many municipalities test for Cryptosporidium, which is really small and not killed by the chlorine levels used in municipal water systems. Cryptosporidium with make you REALLY sick. My little filter removes all of that stuff.
The filter with its two canisters and a pressure regulator and the two hoses fit in a little rubbermaid tub and I keep it in the aft stbd outside storage compartment. (I also keep a couple of rolls of teflon tape to reduce leaks) All water that goes into the rig gets filtered.
Harold
Harold,
Thanks. Always safe...never sorry. Great input, thanks.
So here's a question. As Andy has stated previously about refrigerating the filter elements, do you suggest that with your system this will not be necessary?
Ready to make a clean sweep.
Kent
It seems like it would be a good idea to slow any algae or bacterial growth in the dormant filter, but it will take up a lot of space in the fridge. I have a sediment filter, a carbon canister, and a RO unit under our kitchen sink and I have the tech come out and check the water quality (TDS) every year in the fall and it seems to do its job without any refrigeration. I'm going to just leave the filter in the storage compartment and run water through it periodically.
I understand Joan's frustration at the turn-around time for answers from the Water Filter Store. It made me a little cranky when I just left several messages on a Friday afternoon, but he called me back a day or two (Monday or Tuesday?) later and answered my questions and gave some good suggestions.
Harold
Harold,
I'm wondering if vacuum sealing the filters might serve a similar function as refrigeration. Vacuum seal bags come in rolls and could provide some of the protection we need for the RV filters or at least postpone any algae growth. Perhaps the filtration canisters you use are less susceptible to algae growth all together. Curious...research time...
I'm not sure but it would make sense that an active filtration system for a home would be a different animal than a RV installation as the water would not have time to sit fallow and create a growth medium for algae.
I'll leave this to those in the know. In the meantime I'll hit the web and do my homework.
Kent
I have no experience with Camco filters; the Omnipure inline filters work well, so unless there is are good reasons for changing brands, I'll stick with the Omnipure..
Both my wife and myself have suffered from water borne illnesses before...never again, if possible.
We used a Nature Pure filter for years until the faucet and canister failed, several years ago.
The marine replacement was over $600, at the time, and was the only choice offered by General Ecology.
That's when we switched to the Omnipure filter. It has worked fine, at a much lower cost.
Nature Pure now has a cheaper replacement that I would consider, if doing it again.
Nature Pure QC2 Purifier with Faucet - Water Purifiers and Water Micro... (https://generalecology.com/category/marine-rv/product/naturepure_qc_purifier_with_faucet)
General Ecology has produced high-end filters for decades, we used their backpacking filters for many years.
Whatever you buy, make sure it can remove Giardia. While it is a fantastic way to quickly lose a lot of weight, it is a terrible disease.
Larry
I fully agree with Larry about Giardia. What a terrible bug, but it is an interesting little protozoan. The adult and the cyst kindly stay in the intestine and don't get into the blood or joints the way some other microscopic parasites do. But they sure wreak havoc in the intestines! The adult stage (Trophozoite) is 12 - 15 microns in length and the cyst stage is 6 - 10 microns in diameter. In theory, any good 5 micron filter should remove Giardia. However, Cryptosporidium is 4 - 6 microns in diameter and can slip through the 5 micron filter. Crypto can make you REALLY sick as well. My money bought a 5 micron sediment filter and a .5 micron secondary filter.
For what it is worth, you can't always avoid waterborne illnesses, even here in the United Sates. My family had a nice dinner at a (now closed) El Torrito restaurant here in town. My son and I ate the "fresh salsa" and contracted Giardia, Entamoeba, Blastocystis, and two other Central American protozoan parasites. I was really sick for over a month. My son was sick for nearly three years directly from this visit. Once the diagnosis and source was established, my family physician said, tongue in cheek, that one of the Central American workers in the restaurant kitchen had "really crappy hygiene". Yuck! This is a constant threat in restaurants when one lives close to the border.
The two canister system that I put together cost me about $100. It is money well spent.
Here is some interesting data and news on the Blue Camco water filter.
The Complete Guide to RV Water Filtration - Trek With Us (https://trekwithus.com/the-complete-guide-to-rv-water-filtration/)
Interesting read. I actually haven't read everything in the link, but it does have some useful information.
Hope this answers some of our concerns.
Kent
The drawback of the Camco filter with a filtration level of 100 microns and larger makes it completely unsafe for the removal of ANY protozoans (Giardia, Cryptosporidium, or amoebas), bacteria or viruses. What is the point? Makes the water taste better? Large rocks and small animals? We used to use the Camco filter until we read more about it, and then we went to a two canister filter.
Their statement that there really isn't any danger of protozoan parasites in municipal water systems has been shown to be patently incorrect on many studies and occasions. Cryptosporidium does show up in municipal water systems and well water. In the following article, note the last paragraph that states that Cryptosporidiium is "extremely tolerant of chlorine in water treatment".
Cryptosporidium (Crypto) and Drinking Water from Private Wells | Wells |... (https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disease/cryptosporidium.html)
In the following article, two municipal water systems are identified that were infected with Cryptosporidium and the one in Milwaukee infected 400,000 people. The water filtration methods were operational but did not prevent the protozoan from passing through the system into the water and infecting the customers.
SL130/SS189: Cryptosporidium : A Waterborne Pathogen (http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ss189)
The two canister system that Trek with Us recommends will do the job. I would recommend that the second filter be a .5 micron combination carbon filter for good measure. It doesn't cost significantly more and, in reality, it doesn't clog significantly faster than a 1 micron filter.
My .02.
Harold
"Their statement that there really isn't any danger of protozoan parasites in municipal water systems has been shown to be patently incorrect on many studies and occasions."
----
Agreed; municipal water systems are definitely not immune to contamination, not only from giardia, crypto, and other nasty gut bugs, but also from E. coli. :o
I suppose that one could just go with beer like many of our ancestors did; not good for the dog, and coffee would be pretty weird, but no bugs! :D
Coffee made with beer could also be awesome. I'll let you know in a minute...
...
Nope.
Chip
That's funny. Maybe adding a little Irish Whisky would be better?
Since everything is better with bacon, how about bacon beer?
Voodoo Doughnut Maple Bacon Ale | Rogue Ales | BeerAdvocate (https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/132/72720/)
Hmmm, wonder if there is bacon flavored coffee . . .?
And here we go!
One of my former colleagues did a fun study around Christmas some years back. He made fresh eggnog with varying levels of rum and plated each drink to detect live bacteria. He found that to kill all of the bacteria with the alcohol in the rum, they had to be pretty potent.
Fun study and great presentation. Potent egg nogs all around after his presentation!
To heck with the filtration. Its about the additives!
Harold
The important element of this thread is the filtration size in microns and what the filter system can and can not do.
Awareness of the inherent risks involved with filling the fresh water tank from varying fresh water sources is key. Off the shelf in-line water filters don't appear to provide the protection that would meet many of our concerns.
Harold's input on the matter has greatly increased my awareness of the situation and the Camco Blue will soon be a thing of the past for this LD owner. I like DIY projects so this will be fun.
As has been mentioned, some filters store outside of refrigeration without the worry of algae growth. In a two filter system such as Harold's, it would seem that the more vulnerable filter element could be removed from its canister and stored in the refridgerator. Currently my Camco Blue sits idle for weeks at a time so for me preserving a better filter only makes sense.
Next step...building that better mouse trap.
Kent
I suppose that one could just go with beer like many of our ancestors did; not good for the dog, and coffee would be pretty weird, but no bugs! :D
The old timers tell tales of 3.2 beer as the NCO approved hydration beverage of choice in 'Nam, because the amount of chlorine required to render water safe made it a little poisonous. 🤔
I just got off the phone with Dave at RV Water Filter Store. He actually picked up the phone after I rung back a second time.
NOTE: You must already know that I have no stake in this company and am forwarding this information only to make our lives easier and healthier.
He is a very knowledgeable professional and answered all my questions.
I will be ordering the following system per his recommendation:
The dual canister 10" B2418 ($104.95) includes a 1.0 micron sediment filter and a 0.5 micron F1Pb Combo Filter. I believe an additional sediment filter is included.
His rational on the 1.0 micron vs. the 5.0 micron sediment filter is that the smaller micron size will keep more "crude" from causing premature failure of the 2nd stage 0.5 micron filter.
The water flow rate of this system is set at 3-4 gallons per minute when used in conjunction with a 55 PSI regulator.
Refill Kit AA1209 includes two 1.0 micron sediment filters and one 0.5 Combo Filter. At $26.95 I'll be purchasing two refill kits.
I also asked about storing the filter system out of refrigeration. He recommends disassembling and draining each filter prior to reassembly and storage if the system will be off line for a month or more. That was good news.
I also asked about depending on an under the counter filtration system and not filtering the water prior to filling the fresh water tank. His take was as mine. To do so could set your fresh water tank up as a possible breeding ground for water born bacteria (all those nasties that have been mentioned) and sediment buildup.
I hope this information helps those who are looking to ditch the Camco Blue. I know am. By the way, turn around time for delivery was estimated to be under a week.
I can't wait to drain and fill my tanks as I prep for Yellowstone next month.
Kent
"The old timers tell tales of 3.2 beer as the NCO approved hydration beverage of choice in 'Nam, because the amount of chlorine required to render water safe made it a little poisonous."
----
3.2 beer and "Near Beer" have been around for a long time; this link tells the difference. I'm with Waverly Root; near beer is repulsive. So is gluten-free beer, and 3.2 beer isn't worth the effort of uncapping a bottle.
APIS - 3.2% Beer (https://alcoholpolicy.niaaa.nih.gov/3_2_beer_2.html)
No beer now, but fond memories of quite a few well-crafted IPAs! :D
As kids we were weaned on Near Beer, but honestly it was definitely an acquired taste.
Old Milwaukee and Hamms found its way into many a cooler back in the day. Now it's Coors Stubbies. A 12 pack of glass makes for a great chill factor for the RV's fridge.
Still think filtering the fresh water tank is a good idea since the most I drink now-a-days is a 12oz. Certainly not enough alcohol to kill off any unfriendlies that may be lurking in the FW tank.
Kent
Kent,
Sounds like you are putting together an effective filtration system. I'm glad Dave was helpful. He was helpful for me also. Having a effective filtration system adds to our confidence when using the water in our rig in areas where the water is suspect, especially campgrounds that draw well water.
When you drain and refill your tank, you might consider refilling it and adding a disinfectant to sanitize the system. Pump the sanitized water through all of the faucets and the shower and then drain again prior to filling with your purified water for your trip. That way you don't bring any residual contaminants with you on your trip. I've used a dilute bleach mix, but it sometimes leaves a slight residual taste. For a trivial fee, West Marine sells a small bottle of water shock additive that I can't taste and I've been using that more recently. I think you have a West Marine at Alamitos Bay.
I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures from Yellowstone. Hopefully a few of them will have a steaming cup of coffee and maybe a doughnut, or two.
Two weeks until we are off to the Olympic Peninsula. Wax is finished. Lazy Daze goes in for alignment on Monday with full fuel, full water and full propane. The solar light goes into the shower skylight after that. High grade bolts in the hitch after that. A few more projects to go...
Harold
"I've used a dilute bleach mix, but it sometimes leaves a slight residual taste. For a trivial fee, West Marine sells a small bottle of water shock additive that I can't taste and I've been using that more recently."
----
To "sanitize" the fresh water tank, 1/4 cup of bleach per 15 gallons of water does the job. Using more bleach doesn't increase effective cleaning and more bleach means a greater possibility of not being able to flush all of the stuff out. A white vinegar "finish" (I've used about a quart per 15 gallons for a final flush) will remove any bleachy taste and smell, provide that one didn't "overbleach"!
One caveat: fully flushing the fresh water system is a water-usage intensive process; in some parts of the country, this is not the concern that it may be in California.
As ever, YMMV.
If treated city water is primarily used, the disinfectant should have a similar effect as a beach flush, something we have never needed to do on our own LD.
I have disinfected used, dirty RV tanks, whose history is unknown.
We use our LD so often, the water rarely sits for more than a few weeks.
FYI, if you filter the water tank's fill water, using a filter with activated carbon will remove the disinfecting chlorine.
Larry
Harold,
As I get older, I try to expand my knowledge base. LDO has always been a great resource for this.
Until Ian & Jean brought up this topic, I had been hard at work upgrading the opposite end of the LD water system. Now, I am excited about bringing the fresh water system up to the 21st century. The effort is minimal with an in-line system and the rewards are tremendous. I will definitely be sanitizing the system prior to the refill.
Along with a pure water tank, I'll also be packing the other fundamental liquids required for survival.
Cheers!
Kent
"...if you filter the water tank's fill water, using a filter with activated carbon will remove the disinfecting chlorine..."
Prior to a journey in the LD I use unfiltered tap water to fill the FW tank in an effort to let the chlorine get to work. This has been my practice since we brought the LD home.
I let this water sit, unused, for about a week and then use that water (straight from the FW tank) to irrigate my landscape (seldom using the automatic sprinkler system for the yard).
I feel safer and my yard finally gets a well deserved drink.
Water conservation is definitely a huge concern for many of us, but so is keeping my family safe. For me it is important to eliminate all possible causes that could put myself and my family at risk. If the yard gets a little greener then it's a win-win for me.
As always YMMV.
Kent
What a good discussion. I need to be more water safety aware. I flush and sanitize each year, but trust state and federal campground water supplies. Of course, there was that time in Texas when the water was brown...
Remember if you have an older, non PEX plumbed LD with Polybutylene water tubing- chlorine will eventually destroy those pipes, making them brittle. After sanitizing, I blow out the system with air or flush with non municipal water. Well water.
It's on it's way plus a couple of extras.
Called Dave at RV Water Filter Store this morning. He was a great help in placing my order. He is right on top of things and my order is already in the mail.
In the last year and a half, I have added many upgrades to our RB. This is bound to be one of my favorite upgrades. Right up there with the Memory Foam mattress pads.
Along with the filter system and extra filters I also ordered a new 25' "white" PCB & Lead free fresh water hose and a 55 PSI Fixed pressure regulator to replace my Camco counterparts. All-In-All with the extra filters I ordered the system should run solidly into 2018 and beyond.
I am so very grateful for everyone's input. And thanks again to Ian & Jean for staring this thread. Now, with all this pure, fresh water I can brew my own liquid refreshments. Kinda reminds me of one of my favourite commercials from the past. Ah, those Sky Blue Waters...
https://youtu.be/o83xxWCel8g
Bottoms up.
Kent
Kent,
I dug into the file cabinet and pulled out my receipt from Dave. Sure enough, I got the 1 micron SED filter as well, not the 5 micron that I reported. Mea Culpa.
I followed his recommendations and so far, so good. Have fun with your project.
Harold
Just a thought, since the water tank is vented, doesn't the city water chlorine dissipate anyway?
Yes, very informative thread. I'm curious how the several of you have each applied the hardware to your whole-coach system. Do you free-stand the filter in close proximity to the water spigot, mount inside a cabinet, free-stand in close proximity to the coach? I am especially interested in pix, if available.
Ray,
As space is limited under the RB galley sink, I will continue to store the two stage filter system in my drivers side forward bay.
If it works like I imagine, I'll be able to hang it upright from the top wooden shelf. I don't plan on making a permanent installation under the sink.
I ordered the system to include the mounting bracket so while at home it can simply hang on the fence next to the rig while filling the FW tank.
I currently use brass quick connects with the old Camco Blue to make hose connection a snap so this is how I will set up the new system.
While at a CG, I plan to use Velcro straps to attach the system to the fresh water pedestal.
Nothing too complicated.
Some mods I've made are permanent like the propane quick disconnect for the Wave, most mods, however, are easily removed and won't change the original design of the LD.
Just me...nothing more.
Kent
Just a thought, since the water tank is vented, doesn't the city water chlorine dissipate anyway?
I'm not an expert on chlorine dissipation but I found some information on the topic. Now this relates to fresh water fish aquariums and we aren't fish, but it may answer your question.
How long for chlorine to evaporate - Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community (http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f12/how-long-for-chlorine-to-evaporate-79277.html)
Of course you probably shouldn't use the same strategies for an RV FW tank as an aquarium so this information is better used simply to answer your question on chlorine dissipation. 🤓
Hope this helps,
Kent
Just a thought, since the water tank is vented, doesn't the city water chlorine dissipate anyway?
Yep, it will go away on its own...after disinfecting the water tank.
Removing the chorine before it enters the tank doesn't provide this benefit.
I suggest a sediment filter, without carbon, for the water fill.
Our 23.5' FL doesn't have room for large canister filters, so we use an Omnipure, under sink filter, with a deck mounted faucet.
Larry
Ray - I had posted a photo of our water softener and purification system a while ago. See it here:
Yet another water pump thread... (http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=30348.msg174065#msg174065)
We just fill the tank, dripping it in very slowly over the course of about an hour while we are encamped, and then use out of the tank exclusively. We use distilled water that we also make ourselves for drinking and cooking. We rarely shower in the rig, so this procedure is necessary on only about a weekly basis.
Extra benefit is that crud does not get in the water system at all. We bought the rig used at four years old, but it had only 7,000 miles on it, and had been used, it seemed, only for someone who had it at a job site on occasion - otherwise, it was kept in enclosed storage. Nothing much had been touched, but there was a shampoo dispenser on the wall of the bathroom, which gives rise to my surmise.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Just a quick note about the combo second stage 0.5 micron carbon filter. There are installation instructions attached to the filter. Follow them closely.
Like the Camco Blue, this carbon filter needs to be run sequentially for ten minutes at a time PRIOR to filling the FW tank. Otherwise the carbon filaments will be introduced to your water tank.
It's the fine print that will get you every time. At least it does me.
Safe water everyone. 🍺
Kent
So far so good...but what a job.
The filtration system is a piece of cake. Taking the extra steps to insure a sanitized FW tank was a lot of work.
I'm not a big chlorine fan. I've sanitized my TT FW system with it and tried my best to sweeten the tank with vinegar but I could never get past the bleach odor. So this time around I went with the Thetford Sanitzer Kit.
Thank goodness I have a way to put my FW tanks drainage to good use because the Therford required several fill and drain cycles. It is a two step process that I never plan to repeat thanks to my new filtration system.
The First Step required an empty FW Tank. Drain existing tank... Second step...add detergent and fill tank...wait a bit (I actually took the LD out for gas and propane thusly agitating the FW tank quite well. Third Step drain the tank...thirsty lawn? I hope so.
Fourth Step Add Sanitizer and fill FW Tank and wait a few minutes...you guessed it....drain tank...another part of the landscape is now satiated. Fifth Step Fill FW Tank. Inbetween each step I was instructed to run each faucet to clean and sanitize those lines which I did.
Wow! That was a literal ton of water. My Certificate of Achievement from the local water authority is probably going to be revoked.
Perhaps I missed the memo about closing off the Hot Water Heater Tank. I know I followed Therfords instructions to the letter. What followed was a bit of a shock. The instructions simply said to run the faucets for 20 seconds prior to use. I did. What insued was a foaming, sudsy soup that went on and on. I decided to stop purging the lines and went in the house.
This morning I resumed the purge. Thinking the foam had settled...wrong. I ran all three lines...kitchen faucet, bathroom faucet and shower...eventually the cold water lines ran free of foam. The hot water lines took quite some time to clear but they did eventually run clear without any foaming. What an ordeal. Never again.
I did manage to put the water to use, but my yard won't need any additional watering for the duration of the summer.
Perhaps using 1/2 or a 1/4 of the suggested detergent would be sufficient. I'll never know.
The water from my FW Tank...never tasted so pure and sweet. So all the effort was worth it.
Just sayin'
Kent
Have been frustrated for years about sanitizing. Bleach, chloride, the crap from CW that is pretty much the same. Yuck. Then got a recommendation for Purogene. This stuff is amazing. For these weekend warriors it was flush completely or the water can sit for weeks and STINK. Now we can let the water sit and be of use as I do maintenance between trips as well as have some water ready to go when we head out. Good stuff. A little pricey.
Dave
3R RV and Marine Holding Tank and Fresh Water Treatment (http://billydump.com/3r/3rhome.htm)
Kent,
Cool post #1001!
I skipped the detergent step and just did the shock and run through all of the faucets. Easier and less water. Your tank is cleaner than mine.
Harold
The Results Are In
After quite a bit of effort, my new filtration system was put to the test. I purchased the First Alert Drinking Water Test Kit on Amazon and followed the simple instructions.
The results were pleasing yet not a total surprise. Bacterial presence, lead, Nitrates, Nitrites, Chlorine all were zero. pH was about normal at 8.5 ppm and Water Hardness was between a recommended 50 ppm and 120 ppm so I'm good with that as well. The Pesticide test failed to yield results.
Hope this information can inspire others to take the extra step to safeguard you LD families.
A huge plus is that the water actually tastes great. I'll still carry my bottles of Arrowhead Spring water but now I won't think twice about drinking out of the LD taps.
Thanks again to Harold and everyone else for pushing me in what I feel was the right direction.
Here are some pics of the test equipment and test results:
Kent
Thx to all for previous discussions/explanations/examples of systems--and Kent , thx in particular for your detailed discussion of your order...now I'll just call and say "I'll have what [he's] having" (with apologies to Harry & Sally. ;)
Lynne
So am I correct in thinking that I can just filter for sediment & caliche to keep the tanks from clogging up & use bottled water to keep my body's plumbing healthy?
Susie
So am I correct in thinking that I can just filter for sediment & caliche to keep the tanks from clogging up & use bottled water to keep my body's plumbing healthy?
Susie
That's what we've done since the rig was new! -- Jon
"That's what we've done since the rig was new!"
----
Ditto. (And with previous rigs, too.) ;)
"So am I correct in thinking that I can just filter for sediment & caliche to keep the tanks from clogging up & use bottled water to keep my body's plumbing healthy?
Susie"
Your mileage may vary, but this sort of system has been in place in our lives for decades - both in our home and in any RV - i.e. heavily filtered and softened water into the house/RV pipes, and distilled water into our human pipes. It's hard to prove a negative, but we have had very little in the way of water problems in any venue.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
What is ditto also?
That's what we do, chemical water taste from most places, while not as undesirable as contaminated water, still discourages us from properly hydrating our aging systems. So the tank is for cooking and cleaning, the bottled water for drinking raw.
heavily filtered and softened water into the house/RV pipes, and distilled water into our human pipes.
From what I've read, I would not opt to drink distilled water. RO, yes, but distilled, no. Since distilled contains no minerals, there is the risk of pulling those out of the body - calcium, magnesium, iron, etc.
In our previous coach we had an ADC filter for drinking water. In the LD we used a filter pitcher and plan to do so in the upcoming coach.
I'm with Paul and Judie here. That's what we do.
As far as drinking distilled water, the probability of the lack of disolved minerals in the DO removing any minerals in your body is is negligible or less. We used to spread that same story to students at the JC and the high school where I taught science to discourage the students from drinking the expensive DO. I, on the other hand, drank it regularly for almost 30 years. I've still got bones and teeth and no problems yet.
Bottled water vs tap water.
An interesting article that will not change anyone's mind.
Bottled Water Vs. Tap Water Comparison (https://20somethingfinance.com/bottled-water-versus-tap-water/)
Bottled water vs tap water.
An interesting article that will not change anyone's mind.
Bottled Water Vs. Tap Water Comparison (https://20somethingfinance.com/bottled-water-versus-tap-water/)
Here's my philosophy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GceNsojnMf0
Interesting info about the purity of bottled water. I wish the article had addressed the issue of bacterial contamination.
Cost of bottled should be obvious- more than gasoline, so yes, much more than tap water. And anyone buying the concept of water coming off glaciers into your bottle, well...
Knowing there are government standards did nothing to help the poor people in Flint though. If tap water in campgrounds across the country all passed the standards for purity and safety at all times I would be drinking from the hose. But they don't. So far as I know, there are no actions against any major bottled water companies.
So you are right Ed!
Bottled water vs tap water.
Ed said:
"An interesting article that will not change anyone's mind.
[Bottled Water Vs. Tap Water Comparison](Bottled Water Vs. Tap Water Comparison (https://20somethingfinance.com/bottled-water-versus-tap-water/))"
Exactly right, which is why we drink and cook with distilled water that we distill ourselves. In the 80's, we lived in Silicon Valley where the ground water was mega contaminated by the chemicals from . . . well, silicon production.
My husband worked at a Superfund site - an Army Airfield Base and NASA installation three miles from our house. Even back then, Silicon Valley was starting to spring up all around us. He worked in an ancient building and had respiratory problems up the wazoo - a five-week bout with pneumonia in1989 nearly killed him.
They didn't bring in bottled water to the base until well into the 90's, so the employees were drinking water that may very well have been contaminated mightily. His boss (who had been there for 40 years) and several of his co-workers died of cancer, and, as some of you know, he himself has an incurable cancer now. Is this just chance, or was the scene set way back in the 70's, when he first went to work there? Can't know the answer, but it seems prudent to keep as many pollutants as possible out of our bodies now.
Plain bottled water? No thank you, but we do believe in filtering out as much as possible for general use, and then distilling enough for drinking and cooking. It is usual to boil water for coffee, tea and pasta and other grain-type ingredients, but what soaks into the food itself? Thus the use of distilled water for these purposes as well.
Everyone must decide what is best for themselves, and this is the tack that we have taken.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
Came across this interesting article.
Just when you thought it was safe to go back in , or drink, the water. 🦈
Check Out This Online Database to See Which Chemicals Are in Your Tap Water... (http://mentalfloss.com/article/503071/check-out-online-database-see-which-chemicals-are-your-tap-water?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_source=mf&utm_medium=07_27_17-grid_1-503071)
This post shares some details about the water filtration system we recently added to our 27’ MB (Sidra), and my approach to potable water handling. I’m sharing the information here because this thread significantly influenced my choice of filtration systems and my approach to potable water handling.
A BIG THANK YOU to everyone who contributed to this thread.
Selecting a water filtration system and potable water handling approach required a bit of self-education – inspired and facilitated by LDO members, and an understanding of our water safety and consumption preferences.
Requirement 1: Complete confidence that the water in Sidra’s fresh tank is safe for drinking and all other uses.
Requirement 2: Drinking water that tastes very good, at least an 8 on a scale to 10, where 10 is “this water is nectar.” In our home we have used a whole house water softener and RO drinking water system for more than 30 years.
Requirement 3: The procedures and systems must be easy to use and service.
We chose to go with:
Pre-filtering the water before it goes in the fresh tank. For this we added a two-stage sediment filter and carbon block filter. We sourced the equipment from the RV Water Filter Store. (B2418 -- Dual 3/4" white canisters with Hose Fittings, Mounting Bracket, SED1 & F1pb)
Secondary filtering of drinking water with an onboard, under sink ceramic/solid block carbon filter. Also sourced from RV Water Filter Store. (DWDUC -- Under Sink system with D-UC)
Treat fresh tank water every 6 months with 3R Purogene (3R RV and Marine Holding Tank and Fresh Water Treatment (http://3rodorcon.com/3r/3rhome.htm)). This is necessary because the pre-filter removes chlorine. Note that the Purogene treatment is not a soak and flush sanitization, but rather a chlorine dioxide addition. We will make this addition very precisely. Note that the drinking water filter will remove it from our drinking and cooking water.
Setting up the exterior filtering system was easy. I built a folding stand that makes it easy to store and deploy (photo below). We get double value from the system because my son and I use it to filter the water we use for home brewing. Lee’s Mild, anyone?
The under sink filter took some extra care to properly plumb and position for ease of service and best space utilization. I did NOT use the part supplied that’s meant to tap into the cold-water supply at the galley faucet. There wasn’t enough vertical space for it because the sink drain pipe is located directly below the hookup. In addition, the plastic fitting didn’t properly accept the threaded fitting at the end of the PEX. Instead I used a Watts ½” quick connect tee valve (see photos below). I also bought a PEX cutter to ensure proper, square cuts.
We’re happy with the results. We judge the drinking water an 8 out of 10. We’ll carry some RO water for those times when we simply have to have something closer to nectar.
“Date line March 3, 2018”...This news just in...
Ok...I just received an email from Dave at the Water Filter Store about their latest deal. I hold no financial interest in The Water Filter Store. Just passing on their latest deal.
“Our limited time only SALE on our RV Essential System, a complete RV water filter system assembled and ready to use for less than $100! We truly appreciate your support! Please share with any friends who may be interested.”
Thank you and safe travels! Dave and Tracey
THE RV ESSENTIAL SYSTEM
Complete RV Filter System, assembled, ready to use
only $99.95 incl shipping!
Top of the line whole RV Water Filtration for less than $100!
Two-stage filter system removes sediment, chlorine, VOC's, cysts (giardia and cryptosporidium), lead and heavy metals
Complete with filters, wrench and hose fittings for quick set up
Available with Garden Hose fittings for outdoor use or 1/2" pipe threads for mounting indoors
Built with lead free, high-durability Dixon fittings and hardware (no plastic fittings)
UNIVERSAL BRACKET & STAND CO
Here’s a little more info on the 0.5 micron filter included in the system.
Pentek CFB-PB10 Water Filter Cartridge Replacement is a 10 inch molded carbon block water filter replacement for use in many water filter systems, especially under sink water filter systems, counter top filter systems, and/or reverse osmosis filter systems. The Pentek CFBPB10 is a standard diameter filter (2 1/2") made specifically to reduce lead and cysts, though it also combines chlorine reduction along with sediment removal in a single filter cartridge.
This Pentek filter replacement cartridge uses advanced Fibredyne carbon block technology for up to two times the chlorine taste/odor reduction and dirt holding capacity of standard carbon block filters. In addition to reducing lead and cysts, it also reduces sediment, dirt, rust, limescale, sand, silt, and other particulates.
Pentek CFB-PB10 Filter Replacement Specifications:
Connection: Drop in
Temp. Range: 40 - 180 F
Micron Rating: 0.5 Micron
Dimensions: 9 3/4" length x 2 7/8" diameter
Filter Media: Modified and molded carbon block
Flow Rate: About 1-2 GPM flow rate depending on specific filter system
Filter Life: About 3-6 months or 5,000 gallons depending on usage and water quality
NOTE: this cartridge should be flushed for a few minutes prior to first use in order to remove excess carbon fines
Pentek CFB Series water filter cartridges are manufactured entirely from FDA approved materials and can be used for numerous in home, commercial, food service, and light industrial uses.
This Pentek CFB-PB10 filter is also known by Pentek part number 255681-43 / 25568143.
The system on sale from Dave is the system that I have been using since mid 2017. It’s portable and easy to use and store.
Just a FYI
Kent
Water Filter Store (https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/)
Refill cartridges @27.95. Any idea as to how long they last?
Spring water, directly from mother nature, that's what I drink if possible.
Water Filter Store (https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/)
Refill cartridges @27.95. Any idea as to how long they last?
"Filter Life: About 3-6 months or 5,000 gallons depending on usage and water quality"
Spec sheet
https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/PDFs/Pentek-CFB-PB10.pdf
The Omnipure K5667 is a very efficient inline water filter:
In-Line Filters: RV Water Filter Store (https://www.rvwaterfilterstore.com/IF.htm)
I'm still using the brass couplings from the original filter from years ago; the fittings don't wear out.
Spring water, directly from mother nature, that's what I drink if possible.
And is the perfect way to acquire giardiasis.
Get it once and you will never drink straight out of a clear spring or stream again.
On the plus side, it is a excellent way to lose a lot of weight.
BTDT
Larry
I have been using a similiar pre-tank filtration setup to what CBSShermans has. I don't have an under sink setup as yet but plan on doing so. I know the filters need replacing after 3-6 months or about 5000 gallons. How are people storing their filtration systems after each use? After I fill my tank I drain as much water as possible and then cap off the inlet and outlet. If I don't take the rig out for several weeks I'm concerned that bacteria could grow on the interior between uses.
Maybe I was just lucky, but backpacking in the High Sierras back in the early 70’s it was not uncommon that my backpacking buddies and I would fill our bota bags and make our Wylers Pink Lemonade straight from the stream.
Never experienced any stomach or intestinal issues. Obviously, things have changed. If I’m not mistaken, the increase in Giardia in the high mountains and elsewhere is a direct result from farm land and field runoff at lower elevations and the little bugger making its way back to the mountain top via our fine feathered friends. This is what I heard way back when and drinking from streams became a thing of the past for me.
Filter me this...please. 💦
Kent
rprice,
You asked, “How are people storing their filtration systems after each use?”
I do as instructed by Dave at RV Water Filter Store. After use (if filter is going into storage for more than a few weeks) I take the filters out after draining them and set them in the LD sink to dry for a few days. I then reassemble them and hang them in an outside LD storage bay.
Dave also said the material in the filters do not run the risk of fungal growth but that drying them for long term storage is just good practice overall.
Kent
"...the increase in Giardia in the high mountains and elsewhere is a direct result from farm land and field runoff at lower elevations and the little bugger making its way back to the mountain top via our fine feathered friends.
---
General Information| Giardia | Parasites | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/giardia/general-info.html)
Kent
"...backpacking in the High Sierras back in the early 70's [...] I would fill our bota bags and make our Wylers Pink Lemonade straight from the stream."
You and I should sit down and reminisce about the places we've hiked. Back then I did not even consider treating my water. Only one occasion comes to mind where I did that, on a hike down to the Valley from Tuolumne Meadows. I drank from one spring using my Sierra Cup for many years without ill effect. Not sure I would try it today! And yes, that spring still runs. ;)
Don't let your dog(s) drink out of the creek (river, etc.), either; water from 'iffy' sources may not only contain giardia, but other bad stuff as well, i.e., E. coli, leptospira, salmonella, and campylobacter. Any of these can cause some very unpleasant symptoms (for you and the dog!), and, depending on the dog's overall health/condition, worse. Anyone who's had a dog with vomiting and diarrhea in the confines of a tent, van, or RV needs no further elaboration!
Consider that no matter how 'pristine', clear, and flowing a creek and river might appear, there very well could be an unseen deer (elk, cow, other) carcass or other source of 'pollution' just upstream.
"Giardia lives in the intestines of infected humans or other animals, individuals of which become infected by ingesting or coming into contact with contaminated foods, soil, or water tainted by the feces of an infected carrier."
A common term for Giardia years ago was Beaver Fever. The Beaver (or other mammal) defecates in the water and without precautions that same water goes down your throat. Can't make it any clearer than that... Sorry Chris! ???
Steve,
“You and I should sit down and reminisce about the places we've hiked.” That would be nice. My backpacking days were great adventures. Far fewer than I would have hoped for.
Back in the 35mm film camera days I got some great shots at Golden Trout Lake just below Piute Pass. And some awesome views of the river below as I hiked through Manzanita groves on the way to Evolution Valley. I never made it there but the hike and the images are etched in my mind. On that trip rain storms made their way through camp three times a day and made the river near Camp boil with the downpour of the High Sierra Spring storm.
I used to love running along the rocky paths in my high top moccasins even while carrying my 40 lb Kelty. Imagine...
Now a cup of coffee and a camp chair suit me fine. Brewed from some seriously filtered water from my very own Glamp Mobile.
Plenty to talk about. Only wish I had done it more often.
Kent
Unless you dip into an artesian well, there is some herd upstream of you. I still have fond memories of dipping the sierra cup without harm. Still have the sierra cup. What vestiges of the joys of dipping into the clear sparking water that remained after a Field Sanitation in medical corps school were obliterated by a later parasitology class :-X
Don't let your dog(s) drink out of the creek (river, etc.), either; water from 'iffy' sources may not only contain giardia, but other bad stuff as well, i.e., E. coli, leptospira, salmonella, and campylobacter.
And another addition in recent years is bluegreen algae
cyanobacteria which builds up in low flowing rivers in the summertime and whose toxins have been fatal to dogs in N. Cal. Coming to a stream near you.
I still have fond memories of dipping the sierra cup without harm. Still have the sierra cup. What vestiges of the joys of dipping into the clear sparking water that remained after a Field Sanitation in medical corps school were obliterated by a later parasitology class :-X
60 years ago, there were were less people in the backcountry and the water was a lot purer.
Even then, one of my backpacking buddies caught giardiasis while on an Outward Bound trip, in the Rockies.
Giadia wasn't a well known problem and it took the docs a bit of time to figure out what was wrong with him.
By the time he was finally given Flagyl, a particularly nasty medicine, he had lost 25 ponds.
Since then, my wife, myself and several other friends have had waterborne illnesses. It made us believers in high-end water filters.
Even when camping in the Alaskan wilderness, we have used water filters.
A few minutes work can save days of misery.
Our LD has a effective sink filter from the Water Store.
I do miss drinking straight out of a stream .
Larry
"I do miss drinking straight out of a stream ."
----
Leah says she understands. :D
Great info Kent, is that the exact water filter I will need for refilling my Lazy Daze? When I call to order is there anything else I should add to the order? 🐯👍