This is what an RV fire at a gas station looks like.
"This is what an RV fire at a gas station looks like."
And the cause was determined to be? ::)
Dunno. The newspaper article didn't say. Looks like a fuel spill with fire under the coach. Fridge and gas filler are on the same side on a Roadtrek tho the filler is moved aft from a stock Van. The interesting thing is the fully suited fire fighters. Gotta take a few minutes for them to get there.
It takes two things to make it happen-fuel and ignition source.
I once had a furnace fire off by surprise. Could have been in a fueling place but it wasn't. Propane off, furnace off, water heater off, fridge on DC is my checklist.
Also stay away from other RVs if possible.
"Looks like a fuel spill with fire under the coach..."
I definitely agree with that! Although most gas stations now have fuel shut-off mechanisms in place I cannot speak for all states. If you want an example of archaic fueling devices you need to experience some of the back country in Alaska. They are mostly living back in the 1950s. :o
"Although most gas stations now have fuel shut-off mechanisms in place"
I'm sure this one did, too. There are other ways to get a fuel spill. Kicking over a gas can before putting the lid on, fuel hose failure, unattended nozzle falling out of a filler. I have seen a car take out a fuel pump twice, once with immediate fire. You never know what your fueling neighbors are up to. I expect the picture is the result of unlikely circumstances but it does not appear staged.
The link to the newspaper article no longer works. All I can remember from the article is that it was an older couple.
The downsides are considerable. Gotta find a way home, liability for station damage. Gotta replace everything that got toasted.
While I'm no expert on photo shop, I have to question the validity of the photo.
Look at the van's rear wheel well, it's missing and the whole area looks fuzzy.
The light from the fire should illuminate the back and the side of the van, but it doesn't.
Even if the fire house was next door, it takes a couple minute to respond, at best.
The van show no signs of smoke or flame damage.
RV fires do happen, be safe.
I have asked a lot of people though the years if they turn the refrigerator off, when fueling.
A surprising percentage have given me a blank look, not even knowing about the potential safety hazard.
I have no way proving it but I suspect that tens of thousands of RVs are fueled each day with the refrigerator or water heater on.
It's not the safest practice, sure, but how many fires, attributed to gas spills that are ignited by an RV's refrigerator, do you hear about on the news each week, month or year?
While I do shut the refrigerator off, when fueling, I wonder what the actual risk numbers are.
IMO, humans are exceptionally bad at calculating risk.
Our 1983 LD's refrigerator was wired to automaticly shut off for 15 minutes whenever the engine was turned off, to provide a safer fueling environment. Too bad contemporary refrigerators are not wired the same way.
It is something that can be done retroactively, using a delay relay. Below is a timer I have used on various projects.
Search Results for Elk-960 (http://www.at-fairfax.com/search-results.php?keywords=Elk-960&submit=Go)
Amazon.com: ELK-960 Delay Timer Module: Home Improvement (https://www.amazon.com/Elk-ELK960-ELK-960-Delay-Module/dp/B004HN3C42/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1490336504&sr=8-1&keywords=Elk-960)
Larry
As Larry said, RV fires do happen and are fairly common. A quick Google search confirms that.
Man suffers severe burns in Pacheco RV fire | abc7news.com (http://abc7news.com/news/man-suffers-severe-burns-in-pacheco-rv-fire/1808931/)
Crews Battle RV Fire in South Sacramento | FOX40 (http://fox40.com/2017/03/06/crews-try-to-stop-rv-fire-in-south-sacramento-from-spreading-to-homes/)
Man hospitalized with burns from RV fire - Story (http://www.kerngoldenempire.com/news/man-hospitalized-with-burns-from-rv-fire/509986776)
You rarely hear the results of the investigations but I think the causes are for a variety of reasons ranging from operator error to lack of maintenance to who knows what? There is always some risk but risk can be limited by following safe practices like turning off appliances before fueling, proper maintenance, and being familiar with your RV.
And this is way we don't pump our own gas in Oregon. <smile> The real reason is we melt in the rain 'casue we are made of sugar.
More fires. These were all at gas stations:
No injuries reported after RV catches fire at Opelika gas statio - WMC... (http://www.wmcactionnews5.com/story/33186277/breaking-rv-catches-fire-at-opelika-gas-station)
Motor home, gas station catch fire in Columbia Falls - NBC Montana (http://www.nbcmontana.com/news/kcfw/motor-home-gas-station-catch-fire-in-columbia-falls/220415191)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=096cQF8vcCI
We went to the Escapees Bootcamp. While it gives an overview of RV systems, it focused on safety.
They said you have 20 seconds to get out of an RV once you realize there is a fire. Your only goal get out of the RV (do not try to grab things to take with you or you won't make it out). You can have a "go bag" in your toad as after the fire you have no clothes/shoes/food/money/etc. - all is gone but hopefully you are ok. He says we are not young (most of us) so we are not firefighters, our goal is to get out of that RV.
They said everyone needs an escape plan and to practice it so that you know you can do it when it is needed.
The basics were:
Plan ahead - e.g. Do you need to park so the picnic table is just outside the escape window to make it easier to get out quickly?
Know where your escape window is. Plan if you can use it (many are very small). And how to keep it open (do you need to prop it open, or is it a slider.
Person 1 needs to have good upper body strength and that decides who is person #1 or person #2.
Person 1 opens the escape window, put in stick to prop it open if needed, grab thick blanket to put over bottom of window opening (that bottom of the window opening will cut you up).
Person 1 gets out that window - feet first, belly down.
Meanwhile Person 2 shuts the pocket door (or hangs up a flame proof curtain of some kind) to delay the fire a little longer (smoke and heat gets you before fire does).
Person 2 uses the fire extinguisher to soak themselves - they will get singed and this is to help reduce any burns.
As soon as Person 1 is out, Person 2 lays on that blanket to go out the window - head first, belly down onto the blanket.
Person 1 yanks hard on the blanket so that Person 2 comes tumbling out.
It sounds drastic, and injuries could happen, but you will be safe - remember they said you have 20 seconds max.
If you have pets, you have to consider how to handle them - remember you have only 20 seconds and some hard choices might have to be made if you can't lift your pets and quickly get them out of that window.
A side note, I thought the escapees bootcamp was very well worth going to. Lots of safety tips and lots of general tips.
Another tip - They also said use an AB fire extinguisher (not the common ABCs that everyone sells), as type C fires are less common and it leaves such a mess you will never get it clean.
Thanks for sharing the tips you learned at the Bootcamp; good stuff!
Regarding the last tip about the fire extinguisher, some may not be aware of the different types of chemical used in fire extinguishers so here is a link to learn a little more:
Fire Extinguisher: 101 (http://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/)
I'm not sure it matters so much what type of extinguisher you use because, odds are, the RV will end up being a total loss anyway but perhaps they meant for smaller fires?
More importantly, IMO, is to make sure the fire extinguisher(s) you have, have been properly inspected and maintained on a regular basis, and that you know how to use it. The chemicals inside can become packed down and hardened after years of vibration, extreme heat and cold, etc. Also, the seals in the handle nozzle can leak over time, slowly leaking the propellant used to discharge the chemical and rendering the extinguisher useless.
While I agree with having an "escape plan" in case of a fire or other situation that requires a quick exit from the rig, I believe that, for many, if not most, people, the outlined measures of getting even one physically able person out through the escape window and away from the rig within the 20-second time limit is unrealistic, even with heavy surges of adrenaline.
People might want to consider developing an escape protocol based on their personal circumstances, i.e., location, size, and access of the escape route in their rig, the numbers of people and pets in the rig, and the physical capabilities of everyone and everything involved. (Note: I suggest avoiding any "get out" plan involving going through the hatch in the overcab [for those who have an LD with an overcab hatch larger than 14"], even if one is able to squeeze through on to the roof; discerning the "why not" of that idea should take far less than 20 seconds.)
As ever, YMMV.
Amen Joan, especially at our age!
Looks like my bacon is gonna fry! :o
Looks like my bacon is gonna fry! :o
Steve, I figured as former Air Force you would have one of these installed?
No comment... but you made my day! O:)
Steve, I figured as former Air Force you would have one of these installed?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB5PAhQY4HY
Larry
Back in early January 2006 we were spending the night in our LD on Rincon Parkway, sitting outside about 10pm, when we noticed large flames down the road in another site a few hundred yards away. We soon realized it was an RV on fire. We called 911 but had trouble getting the dispatcher to understand the location. It took the fire crew about 15 minutes to arrive by which time the RV was toast.
To his credit my son who was with us was very concerned that people were likely in the motorhome and felt that we needed to do something to save them. I said no, we're not going near that thing, which has both fuel and propane tanks likely to explode at some point. And it was clear to me that no one inside had a chance. It all happened very fast.
Later we talked with the fire crew who said no one was in the RV, which was an old Class C. They felt it had likely been driven there and deliberately torched and abandoned, as no one was around.
The next morning we awoke to some mechanical sounds. The remnants of the motorhome were literally being scraped up by a front end loader and deposited into one of the dumpsters along the Parkway. By 9:00am or so there was no sign it ever existed.
That was a sobering experience. But I take some solace in the fact that the motorhome we saw and most of the examples cited here seem to be old RVs perhaps in deteriorated condition and likely without reasonable precautions being taken.
The truth is that, once ignited, these things are death traps. The best strategy is prevention. Good maintenance and proper precautions when fueling, both gas and propane, and when cooking, heating, etc. And being sure that your warning devices work.
Finally, in the event of fire your only thought should be getting out and away. No dressing, no saving things or pets. No fire fighting unless you're clearly safe to do so. Nothing. Just escape.
And, FWIW, we always shut off the refer and water heater when fueling. And after this thread we're going to have a discussion about whether my wife should continue to remain in the motorhome as she usually does while I'm filling gas. After shutting down the refer and water heater, her usual tasks, why not get out, stretch and walk around a bit?
We always vacate the motorhome when filling propane, why not when filling gas? Human complacency around a facility with thousands of gallons of gasoline being dispensed by average people, and doubtless a few idiots, through perhaps dozens of hoses at once is really rather stunning, isn't it? We've all seen the occasional lit cigarette, engines running while fueling, improper filling of gas cans, hose failing to shut off, etc. etc. Murphy says if it can happen it will, at some point.
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
About a year ago, the topic of RV fires was revisited.
Fire safety is of paramount importance to all RV enthusiasts. Annual inspection of RV and S&B extinguishers should be a priority.
The reality is, however, that for many the fire extinguishers sit idle and often forgotten. At the recent Morro Bay GT, I am curious if the topic was addressed. I would imagine it was.
The matter of education and preparedness is vital. Both in our rigs and at home. "Is everyone here"? "There will be a quiz after our demonstration and practice". There's the rub, how many of us have ever actually used an extinguisher for a practice drill?
When I installed my extinguishers in the LD, I was met with a serious lack of interest and a cautionary attention span.
When I outlined the location of all five Foam Extinguishers and the two Halatron extinguishers that I installed, all my travel guests followed me along. Maybe the next time I'll break out a Foam Extinguisher and have a practice run.
As an aside, Halatron Extinguishers are best used by one person who has been educated in their use. The Foam Extinguishers work well and I believe are easily handled by most adults.
As far as the LD Dry Chemical extinguisher goes, it's a last resort or perhaps it will come in handy outdoors to put out the campfire.
The RB has 6 exits which I hope we never have to use. Every trip brings the reminder..."Extinguishers are here...Exits are here and open quickly and easily". "In the event of a fire...exit".
Time for the annual Halatron inspection before we take off for Yosemite in April. I hope we never have to use any of them.
Kent
"At the recent Morro Bay GT, I am curious if the topic was addressed. I would imagine it was."
---
I did talk briefly about fire extinguishers (and had an example of the small ones that I use on display and Mac's website listed in the handout) at the "Round the Rig" show and tell at MB. If one is still unaware of why several appropriately selected and well-placed (in exterior and interior locations) extinguishers are necessary, a visit to Mac McCoy's website will point up the reasons.
www.macthefireguy.com
Looks like my bacon is gonna fry! :o
Steve, I figured as former Air Force you would have one of these installed?
Yes dear. That is a pretty red switch.
Brings a completely different picture to the old escape hatch over the bunk area.
The RB has 6 exits which I hope we never have to use.
6 exits? What are they?
The foam extinguishers are great for RV use, they do not cause much damaged, if used.
On the other hand, blow off a 5-lb dry chemical extinguisher inside your rig, or under the hood, and you might well think about salvaging the rig.
Dry powder is very to removed and is extremely caustic, causing any thing metallic to rust or corrode. Any small, moving or electrical part, exposed to the dry chemical, will have future problems.
My mechanical shop, at LAX, had a separate section just for testing and refilling the airports 4000 extinguishers, equipped with a vacuum hood used to keep the various fire extinguisher chemicals contained.
We still had rust on every steel item within 15', it's nasty stuff.
Larry.
6 exits? What are they?
I count 7, maybe 8 exits.
Shower window
Entry door
Lounge window- pass side
Lounge window- driver side
Cab door- pass
Cab door- drive
Roof escape hatch
And if you are small and agile enough, the kitchen window.
Thinking about a ejection bunk.
Larry
I count 7, maybe 8 exits.
Shower window
Entry door
Lounge window- pass side
Lounge window- driver side
Cab door- pass
Cab door- drive
Roof escape hatch
And if you are small and agile enough, the kitchen window.
Thinking about a ejection bunk.
Larry
Guess I forgot about all the windows as being an escape route.
Here you go, Larry!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVzn1pl4nlo
"At the recent Morro Bay GT, I am curious if the topic was addressed. I would imagine it was."
---
I did talk briefly about fire extinguishers (and had an example of the small ones that I use on display and Mac's website listed in the handout) at the "Round the Rig" show and tell at MB. If one is still unaware of why several appropriately selected and well-placed (in exterior and interior locations) extinguishers are necessary, a visit to Mac McCoy's website will point up the reasons.
www.macthefireguy.com
Thanks for the link, Joan- very informative!
"The foam extinguishers are great for RV use, they do not cause much damaged, if used."
Larry or other wise and experienced Lazydazer, the subject of fire extinguishers makes me wonder this;
What is a good extinguisher that will fit in the fire extinguisher cubby hole? And where else have you mounted extinguishers where they are accessible and yet not in the way?
Thanks for any help in this area. We still have the original extinguisher that came with our rig in 2003. We also have a small one in the compartment below the fridge.
Steve K
Exits in the RB? Although the shower window opens and could be used, I discount it due to its size, but yes it is a possibility.
Hmmm...does the RB Galley window open? I've never checked, but even if it does I doubt it would make a useful emergency exit.
Then there are:
Drivers side dinette window. (1)
Drivers side sofa window. (1)
Drivers Cab door. (1)
Passenger Cab door. (1)
Passenger Side sofa window (1)
Coach Door. (1)
Shower Window (awkward). (1)
Total Recalculated w/shower=7
The 2015 RB has no Escape Hatch.
Kent
Exits in the RB? Although the shower window opens and could be used, I discount it due to its size, but yes it is a possibility.
Hmmm...does the RB Galley window open? I've never checked, but even if it does I doubt it would make a useful emergency exit.
Then there are:
Drivers side dinette window. (1)
Drivers side sofa window. (1)
Drivers Cab door. (1)
Passenger Cab door. (1)
Passenger Side sofa window (1)
Coach Door. (1)
Shower Window (awkward). (1)
Total Recalculated w/shower=7
The 2015 RB has no Escape Hatch.
Kent
Thanks, Kent. The bathroom window does not open, correct?
Steve,
Unless you have agitated (shaken up) the LD original Dry Chem Extinguisher periodically, it is most likely useless as the chemicals have probably settled to its sides and solidified (that's my understanding).
Where are my extinguishers? I have Five 16 oz Foam Extinguishers that I purchased from Walmart for under $25.
They are placed strategically around the rig. Mine is a RB so placement may vary per model:
One above the Passenger Side Sofa in the cupboard- front left side. Easy to see and grab.
One above the stove in the cupboard right side next to a Large Fresh Box of Baking Soda (another fire retardant).
Two in the Bath Room Cabinet below the sink. Front left side in front of everything else. Easily spotted.
One Outside Passenger Side Top Bay. Right side in plain sight.
HALATRON EXTINGUISHERS (2):
One Mounted on its own bracket bolted on the Bulk Head behind the TV in the Over Cab Sleeper. Easy to get and kinda out of sight. But it's there.
One in the RB Closet mounted flat on its own removable wooden plank. The extinguisher bracket is bolted to the plank. The plank is Velcroed to the lower shelf on the left. It's placement here is to provide for its use when caught in the rear of the coach. It can help knock down flames when trapped by fire and you are heading toward the exit.
As always, I hope I never have to use any of them. When I told Vince about my Extinguisher Set-Up, he was a bit taken aback thinking I had gone to extremes. I explained that it was all precautionary. After that, he saw my point.
Hope this answers your question. Is it over the top? I don't think so. My late Father was a Firefighter for Los Angeles County and I think he would approve.
Kent
Greg,
Yes the RB shower window does open, however the window itself is small and the opened space is only 1/2 its width.
Might be good for passing a small pet through or perhaps an infant.
Kent
Greg,
Yes the RB shower window does open, however the window itself is small and the opened space is only 1/2 its width.
Might be good for passing a small pet through or perhaps an infant.
Kent
That's good to know. So many of the SOB's windows don't open at all.
[ Quote] Unless you have agitated (shaken up) the LD original Dry Chem Extinguisher periodically, it is most likely useless as the chemicals have probably settled to its sides and solidified
To properly maintain a dry chemical extinguisher, periodicly pick it and turn it upside down. Smack the side with something solid. When the power is tightly packed, you will feel the powder fall.
Repeat a couple times before replacing the extinguisher in its cradle.
Also check the pressure gauge to ensure it is still pressurized .
Larry
"Where are my extinguishers? I have Five 16 oz Foam Extinguishers that I purchased for under $25"
Thank you Kent.
Can you tell me the brand and model of the foam extinguishers you bought?
I do appreciate the detailed answer and the info about shaking up the old extinguisher. I had never heard that before; all I have done is look at the guage.
Steve K
Very useful information about fire extinguisher classifications at this link!
Fire extinguisher education for RVers (http://www.macthefireguy.com/fire-extinguisher-education-for-rvers)
As Larry mentioned, smack it with something hard. A hard rubber mallet works nicely; just smack several times on and near the bottom where the chemical settles.
Steve,
I purchased 6 "Fire Gone" foam extinguishers on Walmart's website and picked them up at a local store. I kept one in the S&B's near the stove.
The current ad states the price at almost $11 each. I purchased mine on sale.
Here is a pic of the current listing on Walmart.com
Kent
Joan,
Always something new on the horizon. I located a 20oz Cold Fire Extinguisher on Amazon for a fair price. eBay has a 13 oz can for under $20.
Another tool in the arsenal for fire preparedness. Should fit nicely about midship in the coach.
Kent
Kent, thanks for sharing your fire extinguisher suggestions. I will be using them as I update our rig this spring.
Steve K.
So Kent, when are you going to install the galley system? :D
Amerex Restaurant Systems | Industrial & Gas Station Fire Suppression System... (http://www.allstatefireinc.com/products-services/kitchen-fire-suppression/amerex-restaurant-systems/)