I found a 1993 24' with 97K miles on it. Needs all new tires and a water pump. It looks okay. I don't see evidence of any leaks, but I have to see it in person to be sure. This is the 3rd owner. They said no accidents, though I'll run a vin report to be sure. I've seen this same rig for 20K, 14K, 12K. This person wants 14k, may negotiate a -little- which seems odd given that it needs 2k worth of tires a new windshield and a new water pump, never mine the miles and I don't think the roof has been sealed in many years. Not many pictures.
What is a fair price for this if everything else is working and there aren't any leaks?
Thank you.
Mimi
[Edited topic title to be more descriptive - Michelle]
Sounds like it may be a little high.
I think so because according to the price guide, it should be 12K. It needs all new tires, the roof needs to be sealed, I worry that the brakes haven't been touched in years and it has that problematic front overcab window. I think I'll look elsewhere.
Thank you.
Like everyone, I too have an opinion. Which is that this is a very high Price. I have recounted our purchase experience here before. 1992 26.5 MB with 33k miles. Paid $9k. I thought that was properly priced. If I found a certified perfect Low mileage 1993 I would consider that Price a reasonable starting point.
Good luck! Be patient. The deals will come along.
I think so because according to the price guide, it should be 12K. It needs all new tires, the roof needs to be sealed, I worry that the brakes haven't been touched in years and it has that problematic front overcab window. I think I'll look elsewhere.
Thank you.
If it has the front window it can't be a 93, the window was eliminated some years before that. It may look like it has windows from the outside because LD painted on faux windows for some years afterward. Prices are somewhat dependent on location, LD in Socal seem to ask higher prices than elsewhere for example. I paid more than I expected but after looking a long time I just wanted to go camping!
"If it has the front window it can't be a 93, the window was eliminated some years before that."
---
According to Andy's "Changes by Year", the front window on the overcab was eliminated in mid-1990, i.e., models built in early 1990 will likely have the overcab front window; models built later in 1990 will likely have a solid front.
AFAIK, the sticker on the jamb of the driver's side door should have the date of the chassis manufacture; a plate on the driver's side should state the build date of the "box". The two dates may not be the same; it's not uncommon for a chassis manufacture date to precede the box build date, sometimes by several months.
AFAIK, the sticker on the jamb of the driver's side door should have the date of the chassis manufacture; a plate on the driver's side should state the build date of the "box". The two dates may not be the same; it's not uncommon for a chassis manufacture date to precede the box build date, sometimes by several months.
It isn't common to find a chassis that is a year or two older than the coach.
The year of the LD is based upon the coach year. This can get tricky when dealing with chassis problems.
Larry
Like everyone, I too have an opinion. Which is that this is a very high Price. I have recounted our purchase experience here before. 1992 26.5 MB with 33k miles. Paid $9k. I thought that was properly priced. If I found a certified perfect Low mileage 1993 I would consider that Price a reasonable starting point.
Good luck! Be patient. The deals will come along.
Thank you Paul! That's what I was thinking, but I was even thinking 8k or less because this woman is the third owner and hasn't done a thing to it. I'm worried about repairs and, based on what you wrote in my other thread (sorry didn't mean to start two) I do think I could easily drop a lot of money into this one. The thing is, how can I know? I don't care so much about the interior stuff, though it looks pretty clean inside, but I do want good tires, brakes, no leaks, no wood rot, no generator or heat issues and I would like a windshield without a crack in it. In my extreme inexperience, I feel like I could put 5K into it immediately because I can't do brakes, etc. myself.
When you bought the 92, did you end up putting a lot of money into it from the beginning?
Thanks for your help.
Mimi
If it has the front window it can't be a 93, the window was eliminated some years before that. It may look like it has windows from the outside because LD painted on faux windows for some years afterward. Prices are somewhat dependent on location, LD in Socal seem to ask higher prices than elsewhere for example. I paid more than I expected but after looking a long time I just wanted to go camping!
Yes sorry, I miss-typed. It doesn't have a front window. The rig is in CA, so I expect a bigger price, but I think this one is really quite overpriced. I found one out of state that looks good, but it would cost me too much just to go see it, never mind bringing it back. I was also concerned about getting stuck on the road, so I'm trying to stay sort of local..within 500 miles.
I want a LD yesterday, so I understand how you feel.:-)
Mimi
It isn't common to find a chassis that is a year or two older than the coach.
The year of the LD is based upon the coach year. This can get tricky when dealing with chassis problems.
It can get tricky for a buyer as well. At least it was for me when trying to determine the year to base the value on.
After having a couple of LD transactions fall thru due to inspection issues I ended up putting a down payment on a Bigfoot out of Seattle that was advertised as an 05 but was registered as an 04. The original invoice showed it was sold out of So Cal as a new 05 Bigfoot in Oct 05.
I called the CA DMV to see what year the original owner had registered it as but "they" couldn't/wouldn't tell me but did say it would be registered as an 04 based on the chassis VIN if brought back to CA.
Ended up not buying the Bigfoot and as luck would have it a LD 26.5 MB came up a couple weeks later that was advertised as an 07 coach with 06 chassis.
The LD had an 06 chassis VIN and was registered to 2nd owner in WA as an O6 but delivered to original So Cal buyer in Feb 07 per original invoice. The LD badge on the driver side said O6 as well as the LD owners manual and original invoice so I was sure it was an 06.
Still I called LD before closing the deal to ask two things: is the roof on the LD supposed to be loose and what year is this LD? I think I spoke to Vince but don't recall for sure. His answers were short and to the point: the LD roof is a floating roof and the LD is an 06 based on chassis VIN.
That was good enough for me and I became the proud owner of a new to me "06" 26.5 MB last Apr.
Finally when I went to the CA DMV to register it they checked the coach badge on the drivers side as
well as the chassis VIN.
Which makes me wonder if there are CA LD owners out there with a chassis VIN year that does
not match the coach badge year and if so what year was used on the title - but that's a different thread.
Trying to get back on topic ...
As a buyer I used the registration year and condition to value a prospective RV but can understand as a new owner
and potential seller someday at least mentioning the delivery/in service year if different than the registration year if have paperwork to back it up.
Rich
Yes Mimi, immediate. The first thing we discovered when we cleaned it up was rot. Which, like rot always does, was promiscuous. The second thing was another bit of rot. After that fix, which was extensive, I began upgrading (repairing) things.
Mechanically ours was/is doing well. New tires, fluids and filters. I chose to do other work to it that was not critical, like fuel pump, power steering pump, suspension.
Which makes me wonder if there are CA LD owners out there with a chassis VIN year that does
not match the coach badge year and if so what year was used on the title - but that's a different thread.
[/quote]
Our TK was delivered in March of '07 but was built on an '06 chassis. It is titled in CA by the chassis. When we were ordering in October of '06, Todd offered a discount if we would accept the last of their '06 chassis. It was either $500 or $1,000. I forget, but I do remember thinking that the discount would pay for one of my add-ones, either the solar panel or the sat dish. Hope it was the panel as we've never used the dish. 😉-- Jon & Loni
Yes Mimi, immediate. The first thing we discovered when we cleaned it up was rot. Which, like rot always does, was promiscuous. The second thing was another bit of rot. After that fix, which was extensive, I began upgrading (repairing) things.
Mechanically ours was/is doing well. New tires, fluids and filters. I chose to do other work to it that was not critical, like fuel pump, power steering pump, suspension.
Well, I must admit, it does make me nervous even considering an early 90's LD. To be safe, I'm assuming it will need repair from rot. I just don't know what something like that costs and how long it can take. Would an inspection uncover everything that's wrong including hidden rot? How would I find someone qualified to inspect a LD?
Thank you Paul.
Mimi
It can get tricky for a buyer as well. At least it was for me when trying to determine the year to base the value on.
Still I called LD before closing the deal to ask two things: is the roof on the LD supposed to be loose and what year is this LD? I think I spoke to Vince but don't recall for sure. His answers were short and to the point: the LD roof is a floating roof and the LD is an 06 based on chassis VIN.
Rich
I was wondering why it's important to know the date of the chassis compared to the rig and how does that affect the value?
Thanks...
Mimi
I was wondering why it's important to know the date of the chassis compared to the rig and how does that effect the value?
Once an LD is more than a few years old, a one year discrepancy, between the chassis and coach build dates, become irrelevant, condition becomes the prime determiner of value.
How to find an inspector? I would start by checking with RV shops in the area where the RV is located.
Even the best inspector or mechanic will not find all the warts, but they will find things you would never see or even know to look for.
Larry
Finding rot is a challenge sometimes for anyone not specifically looking for it. Make sure your inspector is aware of the LD construction and weaknesses. Like the corner end caps, roof seams, bathroom window.
Finding rot is a challenge sometimes for anyone not specifically looking for it. Make sure your inspector is aware of the LD construction and weaknesses. Like the corner end caps, roof seams, bathroom window.
An inspectors best friend is an ice pick.
If an area feels soft to the hand, gently push the ice pick into it. If it easily goes into the wood, there's likely rot.
Make sure the owner knows what you are doing and is OK with it.
In all models, check the front interior corners, down at the bottom of the mattress (or the back of the entertainment center), for softness, moisture or that funky mold smell.
Do the same under each window, especially the bottom corners. Defective window seals allow water into the frame.
Any area that seems soft, moist or smells, you should do the ice pick examination.
Find the LD's coach water pump and examine the area under it. Water pump leaks can go undetected for months and years if the owner is inattentive .
The area under the toilet should be examined for softness, possibly caused by a leaking water line or drain.
Usually there is a bad smell associated with drain leaks.
Look under the sinks for damage caused by leaking faucets or drains.
This is similar to maintaining a house.
Check the bottom of the rear wall, from under the coach. The wood bottom of the wall (it's a 2X4) is exposed to the elements and has a coating of asphalt emulsion that often hides rot. Rot in the bottom of the wall can be caused by a leaky rear window, loose end caps, or in a few cases, where the spare tire bucket has pulled away from the rear wall, exposing a gap that channels rain water into the wall. The bottom of the rear wall is a great place to practice with your ice pick. Good wood will not allow the ice pick to penetrate deeply.
While under the rig, check to see if the holding tanks are secure, Many have securing clips that can slip off, as the hardware loosens with age.
End caps are another major cause of problems, primarily in older LDs.
Under the caps there are drainage channels, built to safely drain any water that gets in. In new models, the drain channels are coated with a sticky polyurethane sealant, which seems to hold up well.
Older models (not sure when this changed) had the drain channels coated with an asphalt emulsion, which isn't as permanent, pealing off the inside of the channels, as it ages.
If this happens, along with a leaking end cap, rot can develop.
Keeping the caps firmly attached and well sealed is very important. It ranks right up there with roof and window seals.
Rot can also exist in the roof, where a vent, antenna or the roof A/C is leaking. Look at the ceiling of any LD you are interested in. The ceiling should be flat, with no noticeable sags. If an area looks like it is sagging, use your hands to push and examine the area for softness.
Older floor plans had plywood exterior storage bins ( 24' T/Ks until 2014). The plywood bins were coated in asphalt emulsion which, once again peels off with age and exposure, allowing the wood to break down and/or sag.
Most newer models have plastic bins and do not have rot problems but can sag if overloaded for long periods.
If you are lucky enough to find a leak free LD, put sealing of the roof, end caps and windows on the top of your 'to do' list.
It's the best thing you can do to preserve the coach for years to come. End cap and window sealing are chores many of us can handle.
Roof sealing is more involved but many here have done it themselves.
I have posted multiple articles on how to do this. 'Search' is your friend.
Larry
Find the LD's coach water pump and examine the area under it. Water pump leaks can go undetected for months and years, if the owner is inattentive .
Look under the sinks for damage caused by leaking faucets or drains.
This is similar to maintaining a house.
Larry
As usual great advice from Larry.
This is the reason we have audible water leak detectors by the water pump and under the sink. Not too long ago our water pump failed and we got the warning before damage occurred. This reminds me we need to check the batteries in them.
Jim
I was wondering why it's important to know the date of the chassis compared to the rig and how does that affect the value?
Just offering as one reason the advertised date may not match date on title once you get that far.
Definitely agree with Larry it's mostly about condition and one year diff isn't going to factor in too much other than potentially causing it to fall outside your search range or if financing since bank will value it based on the titled year.
I used this guy based on his user reviews to inspect an RV in the Orange county area.
RV Inspection Sothern California (http://www.rvinspectionorangecounty.com/)
He provides a basic checklist with photos and comments on questionable items and talks to you before and after. It was worth it to me in deciding whether to move on or go see it.
Rich
I used this guy based on his user reviews to inspect an RV in the Orange county area.
RV Inspection Sothern California (http://www.rvinspectionorangecounty.com/)
He provides a basic checklist with photos and comments on questionable items and talks to you before and after. It was worth it to me in deciding whether to move on or go see it.
Rich
What does he charge for an inspection? Does it include the chassis or just the coach.
Larry
"Rot can also exist in the roof, where a vent, antenna or the roof A/C is leaking."
That happened to me recently. During a recent rainstorm, I awoke to find the left (aft) foot area of my overcab bed soaked. My Flir 1 thermal camera (https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imager-iOS/dp/B00VILVV62/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1482086777&sr=8-1&keywords=flir+1) showed a leak in the roof (irregular purple area in attached photo). A thermal camera is a handy way to spot fresh leaks, because evaporating water is always cooler than dry wood.
So I used my MultiMaster oscillating tool to cut away a couple square feet of the ceiling in the area shown to be damp. This revealing a dripping mass of sodden fiberglass insulation.
Once I'd cleared that away, I could see that the leak originated in the corner near the triangular steel gusset plate that reinforces the roll bar. I peeled away the carpeting covering the gusset and saw several cables coming into that area. There was a fair amount of damage to the wood, and it was obvious that this was not a recent leak. Fortunately the structural integrity of the beams didn't seem to be seriously compromised, as shown by poking in various places with an awl. And the fact that the damaged rafter was sistered to a one-inch steel roll bar gave me confidence that my overcab was in no immediate danger of collapsing.
Going up on the roof, I saw that the old FM antenna was located in that area, which immediately made me suspicious. The FM and CB antennas had been struck by lightning (http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2010/zapped.htm) six years ago, and the old antenna mount had been unused since then--covered by a blob of sealant. Unfortunately, the sealant didn't cover the entire area, and upon inspection, it turned out that the exposed factory sealant was not only cracked but literally full of holes.
Cutting off the antenna mount flush with the roof using the MultiMaster revealed that the lightning had actually burned holes in the aluminum roof. Between that and the damaged sealant, water had been leaking into the roof, probably since the lightning strike. Pouring water onto the area demonstrated that this was indeed the entry point--it came right through into the ceiling below.
I chiseled away a 3" circle of aluminum roof around the hole that the antenna cable used to enter the coach. Underneath I found an area of blackened wood--probably charred by lightning and then rotted by water.
I made a temporary patch from aluminum flashing, and secured it with a generous amount of Bed-It butyl tape (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/butyl_tape). (This brand was recommended by a boater friend, who says it holds up much better than other brands.) To ensure good adhesion, I heated both the roof area and the patch with a hair dryer before and after applying it.
Subsequent rains showed no further leakage, so I'm pretty sure I took care of the problem. I plan to replace the temporary patch with something more substantial once I get back to drier climes. And I have yet to cover up that hole in the ceiling--I plan on letting it dry out thoroughly for a month or so.
It had taken me six years to discover this potentially serious leak because I normally camp in the dry Southwest. I learned from this experience that I should have carefully inspected all seals on my roof--cable entries, vents, solar panel mounts, etc.--to make sure none were compromised.
An inspector best friend is an ice pick.
If an area feels soft to the hand, gently push the ice pick into it. If it easily goes into the wood, there's likely rot.
Make sure the owner knows what you are doing and is OK with it.
...Roof sealing is more involved but many here have done it themselves.
I have posted multiple articles on how to do this. Search is your friend.
Larry
Thank you Larry. That is a great checklist! I'll keep that with me. I was worried about having someone else inspect it without me having some basic understanding of where to look for rot and why. It's easy to see why it's so important to have a good inspection. I was considering buying a LD sight unseen, but I think not. I know folks do it on ebay, but they probably know how to work on them.
If I do manage to find a watertight LD without rot or other water damage, how often do the end caps, storage areas, holding tanks, rear tire compartment, etc. need to be checked? This seems like it should be an annual thing because I think the damage caused by water intrusion can be far more expensive than paying for good health check-ups.
Thank you.
Mimi
As usual great advice from Larry.
This is the reason we have audible water leak detectors by the water pump and under the sink. Not too long ago our water pump failed and we got the warning before damage occurred. This reminds me we need to check the batteries in them.
Jim
That's the first I've heard of audible water leak detectors! What a great idea! Are they easy to install? What brand are you using? I love this idea! Thank you Jim and Larry!
Mimi
Finding rot is a challenge sometimes for anyone not specifically looking for it. Make sure your inspector is aware of the LD construction and weaknesses. Like the corner end caps, roof seams, bathroom window.
I will do that. I'm just wondering how would I know if the inspector knew about LD construction and if he/she had any experience inspecting them? Are there inspectors certified in inspecting certain RV's like LD?
Thanks...
Mimi
Just offering as one reason the advertised date may not match date on title once you get that far.
Definitely agree with Larry it's mostly about condition and one year diff isn't going to factor in too much other than potentially causing it to fall outside your search range or if financing since bank will value it based on the titled year.
I used this guy based on his user reviews to inspect an RV in the Orange county area.
RV Inspection Sothern California (http://www.rvinspectionorangecounty.com/)
He provides a basic checklist with photos and comments on questionable items and talks to you before and after. It was worth it to me in deciding whether to move on or go see it.
Rich
Thank you Rich! That's really helpful. If you don't mind saying, how much do inspections run? Where did you find the reviews for this inspection company?
Thanks...
Mimi
Once an LD is more than a few years old, a one year discrepancy, between the chassis and coach build dates, become irrelevant, condition becomes the prime determiner of value.
How to find an inspector? I would start by checking with RV shops in the area where the RV is located.
Even the best inspector or mechanic will not find all the warts, but the will find things you would never see or even know to look for.
Larry
Thanks for explaining that! I will check with RV shops to find an inspection service and then I'll check them out online.
Mimi
That's the first I've heard of audible water leak detectors! What a great idea! Are they easy to install? What brand are you using? I love this idea! Thank you Jim and Larry!
Mimi
We have had ours for years and I don't see a name. Here is a link to a variety of battery operated models.
Amazon.com: battery operated water leak alarm (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=battery+operated+water+leak+alarm&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abattery+operated+water+leak+alarm)
Jim
Mimi, when I was looking for an installer for an AC unit, I did my research here, learned a few key points, then asked candidates of they had installed on an LD before. I let them talk while I prompted them with admiring comments about how they overcame the hurdles they encountered. It was easy to see if they really had worked on a Lazy Daze, or worked on an RV sold by LazyDays. It is time to say bye when they comment about the nice fiberglass construction, or that they are made in Florida.
As to frequency, I look mine over carefully every time I load it, and monthly when on the road. I am on the roof often to load and unload the canoe, and I go over each seam with fingers and eyes, then if I have a doubt, use a flat, thin probe. It is really not that time consuming.
I travel with the tools to make simple sealant fixes, and usualy find something to touch up. Especially when it gets hot outside.
"Rot can also exist in the roof, where a vent, antenna or the roof A/C is leaking."
That happened to me recently. During a recent rainstorm, I awoke to find the left (aft) foot area of my overcab bed soaked.
Good grief Andy! It's terrible, but what great detective work! I'm amazed that the cables didn't fry. I guess if a leak can escape the ultimate LD guru, it can certainly escape me and an inspector. Your quick work in making repairs is amazing. A thermal imager and a multimaster...wow. So glad the wood wasn't compromised so much that it has to be replaced. Do you think extensive damage was mitigated because you spent so much time in drier weather; that it had time to dry in between exposure to rain? How would you have detected the damage in dry weather? I'm just thinking about the LD I buy and how an inspection would find something similar.
Mimi
We have had ours for years and I don't see a name. Here is a link to a variety of battery operated models.
Amazon.com: battery operated water leak alarm (https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=battery+operated+water+leak+alarm&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Abattery+operated+water+leak+alarm)
Jim
Thanks Jim and Gayle!
Mimi, when I was looking for an installer for an AC unit, I did my research here, learned a few key points, then asked candidates of they had installed on an LD before. I let them talk while I prompted them with admiring comments about how they overcame the hurdles they encountered. It was easy to see if they really had worked on a Lazy Daze, or worked on an RV sold by LazyDays. It is time to say bye when they comment about the nice fiberglass construction, or that they are made in Florida.
Actually, I have heard salesmen describe the wonderful quality of LD fiberglass construction. Made me laugh. I guess it's easier to learn about people through conversation than direct questions. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks...
What does he charge for an inspection? Does it include the chassis or just the coach.
It was $250.00 last Dec. paid via paypal. It included a test drive and eval of steering, suspension, shifting, acceleration. Chassis wise it was basically visual inspection for fluid leaks, exhaust leaks, frame condition, etc.
If you don't mind saying, how much do inspections run? Where did you find the reviews for this inspection company?
Only actually paid for the one. Tried to get a couple of others inspected in AZ and WA but they were outside the service areas of Phoenix and Seattle respectively. Think they had about a 50mi radius service area. Inspection prices seemed to range in the $200 to $350 neighborhood in winter 2015. Searching "rv pre-purchase inspection" for a given city/state can get you started.
Found reviews by googling the business name for reviews which turned up some on yelp for the one I used.
Rich
It was $250.00 last Dec. paid via paypal. It included a test drive and eval of steering, suspension, shifting, acceleration. Chassis wise it was basically visual inspection for fluid leaks, exhaust leaks, frame condition, etc.
Only actually paid for the one. Tried to get a couple of others inspected in AZ and WA but they were outside the service areas of Phoenix and Seattle respectively. Think they had about a 50mi radius service area. Inspection prices seemed to range in the $200 to $350 neighborhood in winter 2015. Searching "rv pre-purchase inspection" for a given city/state can get you started.
Found reviews by googling the business name for reviews which turned up some on yelp for the one I used.
Rich
Thanks Rich. That's not too bad for an inspection, but I certainly couldn't do several of them. I guess I'll need to inspect the rig first to make sure it's worth the expense. Better get Andy's Guide! I'll start investigating some inspection services so I'm ready.
Mimi
"How would you have detected the damage in dry weather?"
By poking the ceiling with an awl or icepick, as others have recommended. That is, if it had occurred to me to do that to the ceiling at the foot of the overcab bed, where I rarely have occasion to crawl. In this case it didn't.
My mistakes were 1) not properly resealing the antenna mount after the lightning strike, and 2) not inspecting all roof penetrations regularly for damage that could cause leaks.
My mistakes were 1) not properly resealing the antenna mount after the lightning strike, and 2) not inspecting all roof penetrations regularly for damage that could cause leaks.
Luckily, it leaked in a place where you found it before any serious damage happened. Not having any experience with lightening hitting an RV, it's hard to know all the things to look for.
Thinking about it, the lightening may have used the steel roll bar as the main conduct for the surge of power, on its way to the ground,. This may have prevented even more damage from occurring.
Looks like the ceiling paneling was cleanly cut, I hope it is still in good enough shape to be reused, can't find the matching white, original paneling anymore.
Unless you want to replace the roof patch with heavier sheet aluminum, your existing repair should last a long time.
Caulk the perimeter of the patch and call it good.
Larry
"How would you have detected the damage in dry weather?"
By poking the ceiling with an awl or icepick, as others have recommended. That is, if it had occurred to me to do that to the ceiling at the foot of the overcab bed, where I rarely have occasion to crawl. In this case it didn't.
My mistakes were 1) not properly resealing the antenna mount after the lightning strike, and 2) not inspecting all roof penetrations regularly for damage that could cause leaks.
So for me Andy, not knowing much about the rig I buy, picking everywhere will likely turn up issues if there are any. You were lucky because you caught it so fast and you took action immediately. I do worry a bit about folks not being as diligent in caring for their rigs. Before buying an older rig, would it be a good idea to hit with a hose?
Thanks...
Mimi
Concerning Andy's lightning strike, I am curious why a vehicle on tires would be struck. I remember as a youngster being told by adults that vehicles on rubber tires were "Safe", although Andy was connected to shore power. I wonder if that would have created the grounding situation? So now do we want to disconnect during electrical storms. My guess is there are good writ-ups some where on this subject. 35 years when I was living in Florida at my sister's trailer, the trailer was hit by lightning which burned a hole through the roof. The hard rain put out any fires that might have been started. No electrical issues occurred because of the location of the strike fortunately. The trailer was on wheels but was grounded in several places. Many storms passed by for years after without mishap again!
~Liam
98 ~ MB
Opuntia, using Andy's as an example: If you were to look at his LD prior to the discovery of the leak, you would be suspicious of the broken down caulking on the antenna mount on the roof. It's very important to survey the roof and look at every inch of every seam and caulked flange. If it looks like water could get in, then you should assume it did.
If you find something like Andy's problem, then you go inside and look for damage. And, you might not find any. But any time you see failed sealing, you should suspect that water is getting in. It's not a sure thing though...
It's important to understand the methods of sealing that are used. On a typical through-the-roof object, there will be putty tape or butyl tape sandwiched between the roof and the object. The object will be screwed down through the roof, and Dicor liquid rubber self-leveling lap sealant will be drizzled liberally over the screws and the edge of the object and onto the roof.
For water to get in, the Dicor has to fail, and then the tape has to fail. Except for the screws, which are mostly sealed by the Dicor alone. So, often you will see minor hairline cracks in Dicor but water is not getting in. Still, you should try to check. If you see failed Dicor at any spot where water can collect, assume the worst. Any water sitting against putty tape will eventually get through.
When you are inside, just look hard at, well, every inch of ceiling, wall, and floor. Especially at junctions and seams. Open all cabinets and under beds etc, and look down at the corners. As mentioned, push lightly with a small screwdriver or ice pick. If the wood is sound, you won't make a dent. If it is soft, there is a problem. I've put holes in my own RV that way, but never in one I was looking at. "Oopsie!" ::)
Andy,
Butyl tape is not really an adhesive in my book. It's a good sealant for things that are mechanically squished together. Are you confident that patch is going to stay put?
Concerning Andy's lightning strike, I am curious why a vehicle on tires would be struck. I remember as a youngster being told by adults that vehicles on rubber tires were "Safe", although Andy was connected to shore power.
Lightening has the power to jump thousands of feet, even the tires were non-conductive rubber, they wouldn't pose much of an obstacle.
Anyway, most RV tires have steel cords and are made with conductive carbon. Tires are made to ground build ups of static electricity. Years ago you might remember seeing fuel trucks with ground straps, dragging on the pavement to keep them grounded.
Static electric and gasoline are not a good combination.
Disconnecting from power, during lightening storm is a good idea but don't expect that it will protect you from a strike. Andy's surge protector did burn its surge module. Progressive Industries surge protectors are modular and the surge module is easily replaceable, a very nice feature.
If struck by lightening, the LD's aluminum shell will exhibit the faraday cage effect, usually protecting the occupants from harm. The electricity will pass around the exterior metal to ground.
Faraday cage - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage)
Not really interested in testing this myself.
Larry
If struck by lightening, the LD's aluminum shell will exhibit the faraday cage effect, usually protecting the occupants from harm.
Key word "usually!" :o
Key word "usually!" :o
We all have have to die sometime.
You could buy a set of these and build an insulated chair, for use during storms.
General > Set of Four Chair Leg Insulators (http://www.insulators.info/pictures/?id=73230849)
Here's another version.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY3ONbESuT4X9NG9Wc-w44URZAniW6jfWHSdFfIo4LcVxN5c0B6Q
While I doubt their usefulness, I have seen insulated chairs in fire watch towers.
Larry
years ago, like the mid 1970's - when my knees still worked, I attended a lecture slideshow given by this guy that through hiked the Pacific Crest Trail. Much of this trail is above the tree line. A worry was lightening storms. Basically one had to have clothing with no ferrous items on or near you. The advice was to dump ones gear and crawl into a poncho with some wool (poly fleece was not around for the common folk) and sit out the storm in the lowest you could find that was not about to turn into a river.
I'll take the LD Faraday effect to the backpacking solution.
We all have have to die sometime.
Very true, Larry. Better to die than to end up like this guy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGR6Wk3Kboo
"I am curious why a vehicle on tires would be struck. I remember as a youngster being told by adults that vehicles on rubber tires were 'Safe'..."
They are relatively safe for the occupants--not because of the tires, but because of the metal body shell's Faraday cage effect. As for not being struck because of rubber tires, that's a myth. This old photo shows what happens.
Here's something I'll leave to the professionals.
https://youtu.be/ve6XGKZxYxA
I never cared to get up close and personal with electricity.
Kent
If it looks like water could get in, then you should assume it did.
It's important to understand the methods of sealing that are used.
When you are inside, just look hard at, well, every inch of ceiling, wall, and floor. Especially at junctions and seams. Open all cabinets and under beds etc, and look down at the corners. As mentioned, push lightly with a small screwdriver or ice pick. If the wood is sound, you won't make a dent. If it is soft, there is a problem. I've put holes in my own RV that way, but never in one I was looking at. "Oopsie!" ::)
Thank you. It is important for me to understand how various parts of the RV are sealed, put together, etc. so I appreciate the details. You also made me realize that, the more I know about my rig, the better off I'll be. I will look at every inch of a rig before I consider purchasing. I'm also going to look into a moisture detector. I think the expense may be worth it since I'll be getting a lot of use out of it.
Thanks again for all the great information!
Mimi
Andy, I knew someone in this group had a thermal camera. So finding your leak, was that while water was pouring in (so water would be a different temperature) and it found the water. Could it show you wood rot damage that was dry (older stuff)?
"I knew someone in this group had a thermal camera. So finding your leak, was that while water was pouring in (so water would be a different temperature) and it found the water. Could it show you wood rot damage that was dry (older stuff)?"
Unfortunately, no. As mentioned in another thread, a thermal camera can only detect damp areas.
Andy, so I have a question about how you did/are going to patch that hole in your overcab area ceiling?
Does Lazy Daze provide the wall/ceiling material to make a patch? Or only go back a certain number of years?
What do people do when they have a patch to interior of a wall/ceiling?
Invite an artistic friend over to create a unique drawing/painting? :D Or find something to hang over that area? :o
Just wondering if anyone had found some great solutions so it didn't look like a patch job.
A side note, I have learned living in AZ, that the blaring sun in the desert areas here just burns up batteries and rubber on vehicles, so much harder than other areas of the country, even Denver CO which is less humid than Phoenix. I say out here we have a sun blare factor, kind of like the wind chill factor in the NE that makes the temperature feel much worse. The times when direct exposure can be like having your hand over a burner and it is significantly cooler in the shade.
Not so bothersome in the wintertime when the sun warming up your skin can feel nice, but still hard on us and our vehicles. So yup, if you are hanging out in the deserts of the SW, check all your rubber & gaskets & seals regularly (I would guess 2x a year should be fine). But I would never have guessed that a lightening strike would burn elements inside the roof structure ... that might have affected things at some point even if you were checking and keeping the surface area well sealed.
Andy, so I have a question about how you did/are going to patch that hole in your overcab area ceiling?
Does Lazy Daze provide the wall/ceiling material to make a patch? Or only go back a certain number of years?
What do people do when they have a patch to interior of a wall/ceiling?
Invite an artistic friend over to create a unique drawing/painting? :D Or find something to hang over that area? :o
Just wondering if anyone had found some great solutions so it didn't look like a patch job.
A side note, I have learned living in AZ, that the blaring sun in the desert areas here just burns up batteries and rubber on vehicles, so much harder than other areas of the country, even Denver CO which is less humid than Phoenix. I say out here we have a sun blare factor, kind of like the wind chill factor in the NE that makes the temperature feel much worse. The times when direct exposure can be like having your hand over a burner and it is significantly cooler in the shade.
Not so bothersome in the wintertime when the sun warming up your skin can feel nice, but still hard on us and our vehicles. So yup, if you are hanging out in the deserts of the SW, check all your rubber & gaskets & seals regularly (I would guess 2x a year should be fine). But I would never have guessed that a lightening strike would burn elements inside the roof structure ... that might have affected things at some point even if you were checking and keeping the surface area well sealed.
Jane and Scott, if you haven't read about Andy's lightening strike, here's a link. Nature's fireworks! Zapped! (http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2010/zapped.htm)
Chris
"Butyl tape is not really an adhesive in my book. It's a good sealant for things that are mechanically squished together. Are you confident that patch is going to stay put?"
Pretty confident. The patch is an 8" circle of aluminum, and I applied a 3"-wide ring of butyl to its underside. Only the center two inches--the part over the hole in the roof--are unsealed. So it's physically very well secured to the roof, and I think it unlikely that any water can get past three inches of butyl. I repeatedly flooded the area with water after applying it, and no water came through. But in any case, I'll reexamine it in a few weeks and may replace it with something more permanent.
"how you did/are going to patch that hole in your overcab area ceiling?"
The piece I took off was too water-damaged to reuse, and my understanding is that the factory no longer has the particular type of textured wallboard used in my 2003 rig. (I'm not fond of it anyway, because the texture makes it hard to clean.) So I plan to cover the hole in the ceiling with plain white wallboard. Fortunately, the hole is at the foot of the overcab bed and is partially hidden by the refrigerator, so my cover won't be too noticeable.
When cutting away the wet wallboard, I was careful to cut along the midlines of the rafters to which it was attached. That left an inch of wood exposed, which will give me a solid surface to nail into when I attach the replacement piece. I'll hide the seams with trim, and the end result should look fairly decent.
Does Lazy Daze provide the wall/ceiling material to make a patch? Or only go back a certain number of years?
What do people do when they have a patch to interior of a wall/ceiling?
Invite an artistic friend over to create a unique drawing/painting? :D Or find something to hang over that area? :o
Just wondering if anyone had found some great solutions so it didn't look like a patch job.
Tiny holes, in the roof can be patched with Eternbond Tape.
Bigger holes will need an aluminum sheet metal patch, for a permanent repair. Glue the patch to the roof with a polyurethane sealant and use a few stainless-steel, sheet-metal screws, around the perimeter, to secure.
Overcoat the screw heads with the same sealant.
Interior repairs are lot more tricky. The results are up to the woodworking skills of the person doing the work.
Make straight cuts, when removing interior panels, to make replacement easier and better looking.
Only the paneling used in the recent years available from the Mothership.
While the right paneling may not be available, once patched, the new paneling can be painted, if not matching.
Many older LDs have been painted in sections. The paneling in door panels will start breaking down after a decade or two and will start peeling in the corners. High desert heat accelerates this process. You will see the door panels painted often, along with the paneling.
Larry
"Bigger holes will need an aluminum sheet metal patch, for a permanent repair. Glue the patch to the roof with a polyurethane sealant and use a few stainless-steel, sheet-metal screws, around the perimeter, to secure. Overcoat the screw heads with the same sealant."
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What!? You mean that I shouldn't just get a lid off a #10 can and nail it over the hole in the kitchen floor linoleum like my Grandma did!? Effective, durable, and a good preventive for barefoot kids racing through the kitchen! ;)
Joan
Just wondering if anyone had found some great solutions so it didn't look like a patch job
I find that Wilsonart, the modern day replacement like Formica, to be an excellent repair material. My rig came with a small piece of white on the back shelf next to the fold up TV shelf, and the shelf itself. It can be ordered many places (Home Depot) in many colors and patterns. A 4'x8' piece at about $60, comes rolled up for easy transport. It is hard, durable, washable and easy to cut. I used a piece to make a step cover, shown in the picture. It matches my interior vinyl woodgrain paneling well. I used a piece to cover the holes from the factory provided 'strap', to install the new assist bar, in the second photo.
For ceiling panels, you might need longer pieces than 94". It might be available in 10' lengths. You would need to drill holes for brads or screws in a ceiling panel. You could glue it also. Screws would allow for future removal for inspections. RonB
#10 can lid? I prefer the old license plate look. Classes it up.
"You mean that I shouldn't just get a lid off a #10 can and nail it over the hole in the kitchen floor linoleum like my Grandma did!?"
I haven't tried that, but I did once wrap a large tomato can around a busted gray tank dump pipe, holding it in place with hose clamps, as a temporary fix (http://www.andybaird.com/travels/skylarking/2012/rock-attack.htm). I got the idea from an old tip for fixing a broken exhaust pipe.
Thanks for all the info.
Wilsonart comes in pieces up to 12' in some colors and they have a lot of color/style choices.
LOL on the can floor patch - sure would stop people from running thru.