I have a question that's mainly for people that use their Lazy Daze for extended travels and/or full-time.
I bought the Olympian 57331 Wave 3 Catalytic Safety Heater for my 26.5 mid-bath a year or so ago and used it once. In my opinion, it doesn't generate enough heat to be considered a primary heat sources - (which what I was trying to do and not use my furnace).
I hate to throw the money away, but I seriously think I need the mid-range Camco 57341 Olympian Wave-6 6000 BTU LP Gas Catalytic Heater instead.
I tried to use the Wave 3 once and that was before using the furnace to heat up the rig - it didn't make a dent in the temperature.
I'm curious on what people use to heat their Lazy Daze. The furnace is inefficient and somewhat noisy, and I'd much rather find a quieter, more efficient alternative. I hope to travel to Mexico for the winter in about a month or so and would rather not depend on the furnace.
Cheryl - 1998 Lazy Daze (26.5 mid-bath) and 2002 Honda CR-V
In our 2005 RB, we put one of these units on the back wall of the bathroom between the sink and the commode, and we use a second unit up front on a flexible quick-connect hose, and just move it about to suit where we are sitting. In cold weather, these heaters do a good job, but bring the temperature up to the comfort level more quickly if it has some help from the main furnace for a few minutes to take the chill out of the air. They are better at maintenance of temperature than warming cold air.
The closet door can be swung open to block off the back third of the rig, at which time we turn off the back heater, but it *does* take both of them to keep the entire rig at a comfortable temperature.
Think of this heater in operation more as a fireplace, not a forced air furnace. Be sure to read and mind the instructions about adequate ventilation. It will make the area right around the heater very warm, so take care where you position it when selecting a permanent location.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•~•
"I tried to use the Wave 3 once and that was before using the furnace to heat up the rig - it didn't make a dent in the temperature.
I'm curious on what people use to heat their Lazy Daze. The furnace is inefficient and somewhat noisy, and I'd much rather find a quieter, more efficient alternative. I hope to travel to Mexico for the winter in about a month or so and would rather not depend on the furnace."
Our experience is exactly as Judie said.
We had the Wave 3 in our MB. At best, it did a fair job. Don't get behind the heat curve. The unit can't play catchup. Hot air rises and the unit has no fan. The result is warmth if your sitting very close to the unit and warmth at the ceiling but not at the floor level.
Then you need to open some windows or vents to provide some oxygen so you don't kill you self by burning all the O2 inside. ( The Wave 3 does not have a low oxygen sensor. ) This lets cold air in and heated air out. I always wondered just what the net heat gain was.
The other issue is do you run the heater at night when you're sleeping? We did but some don't. If you don't want to use the heater during the coldest time of the day, why have one.
We now have the smaller TK and decided that the cost of adding a Wave 3 was not a good use of our funds.
For the cost of the unit plus installation we can buy a lot of propane. When it's chilly during the day, we simply put on a sweater. At night we have just amazing blankets we bought at LL Bean a few years back so we don't need the extra heat. If real cold weather is forecast at night, I turn the furnace onto its lowest setting. That's enough to keep the coffee water from freezing and doesn't result in an unacceptable drain on the battery. While the morning coffee is brewing, I run the furnace for a few minutes to take off the chill. This system has been working just fine for us in the CO mountains.
Ed
OK, I have mine on a quick connect hose that comes out near the bottom underneath the sink in the front. The area I really am concerned about is the rear area in my mid-bath in the evening. The unit is on the attached "legs". I like the suggestion of using the furnace to take the "chill out of the air" and the Wave 3 to maintain the temperature. I can always close off an area depending what section of the rig I'm in. Thanks!
In our 2005 RB, we put one of these units on the back wall of the bathroom between the sink and the commode, and we use a second unit up front on a flexible quick-connect hose, and just move it about to suit where we are sitting. In cold weather, these heaters do a good job, but bring the temperature up to the comfort level more quickly if it has some help from the main furnace for a few minutes to take the chill out of the air. They are better at maintenance of temperature than warming cold air.
The closet door can be swung open to block off the back third of the rig, at which time we turn off the back heater, but it *does* take both of them to keep the entire rig at a comfortable temperature.
Think of this heater in operation more as a fireplace, not a forced air furnace.
We had a Wave 3 on a quick disconnect and like you felt it was pretty much useless. Almost three years ago we bought one of these and it has made all the difference.
Amazon.com: Kozy World KWP112 10,000-BTU Vent-Free LP-Gas Infrared Wall... (https://www.amazon.com/Kozy-World-KWP112-Vent-Free-Infrared/dp/B000KKO4PW/ref=pd_sbs_201_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=11TYYSV56NKAKKT02D9M)
You can find these made by Pro Com and others. We use the same disconnect.
Jim
We had a Wave 3 on a quick disconnect and like you felt it was pretty much useless. Almost three years ago we bought one of these and it has made all the difference.
Amazon.com: Kozy World KWP112 10,000-BTU Vent-Free LP-Gas Infrared Wall... (https://www.amazon.com/Kozy-World-KWP112-Vent-Free-Infrared/dp/B000KKO4PW/ref=pd_sbs_201_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=11TYYSV56NKAKKT02D9M)
You can find these made by Pro Com and others. We use the same disconnect.
Jim
Were we fulltiming like Jim and Gayle do, I would probably buy the Kozy. We use a Wave 6 in our 30' and find it does a pretty good job if you warm the coach up first with the heater. The difference in heat output between the Wave 3 and 6 is the difference.
Chris
A quick look at the numbers gives you a pretty good idea of what to expect. Wave 3: 3,000 BTU. Kozy World KWP112: 10,000 BTU. Lazy Daze's Suburban brand furnace: 20,000-30,000 BTU, depending on model.
Obviously a 3,000 BTU radiant heater is not a replacement for a 30,000 BTU forced-air furnace. But as others have pointed out, it can be a very useful supplementary heat source, once the furnace takes the chill off. And it's silent, uses no electricity and very little propane, and (unlike non-catalytic heaters) emits little or no carbon monoxide.
(unlike non-catalytic heaters) emits little or no carbon monoxide.
Just curious, Andy.
Do you run your Wave 3 at night when you're sleeping?
Do other Wave 3/6 users do it?
Ed
I used to use a Wave 3, and like others here, switched to a Wave 6. Since I am often in cold climates and/or at high altitude, I'm finding the Wave 6 keeps me much more comfortable. Mine is on a hose as well, so I just move it to whichever room I'm in. I do run it at night. If I'm in a warm climate, I stow it behind the passenger seat of my Midbath. I normally don't have a passenger, so the seat is pushed way forward. At Andy's suggestion, I only use one screw to attach each leg, so the legs can swivel. Otherwise, the legs would have to be removed each time I stowed the heater.
Here is my nighttime ritual for setting the Wave 6:
Low temp Wave 6 Setting
---------------------------------------------------
30's Low
20's Med
Teens Hi
Below 10 Get Outta Dodge
"Do you run your Wave 3 at night when you're sleeping?
Do other Wave 3/6 users do it?"
Sometimes we run the Wave 3 on the back wall of the bathroom while we are sleeping in the front part of the rig, but we have really toasty sleeping bags, so this doesn't happen often. We just make sure the bathroom vent is open a bit, with a cracked window up front as well. Benefit: During night excursions, I much appreciate that the seat on the throne is a little warmer than if the entire rig is really cold!
I sleep in the overcab bed, and always crack that large opening vent a little. Even with it cracked, I sometimes wake up to a mini Lake Newton clinging to the frame in droplet form. I keep a microfiber or terry hand towel-sized cloth at hand to wipe up this condensation before I try to move around in the morning. Moving always seems to dislodge all the droplets, and then there is the effort to get the drops off my sleeping bag.
Virtual hugs,
Judie
I've had a Wave 3 for close to 20 years. Only on the second one. I run it at night.
Dave 04 PleasureWay TD
I have run my Wave 6 all night on a handful of nights. Always with proper ventilation.
Chris
"Do you run your Wave 3 at night when you're sleeping?"
Nope. In theory it should be OK to do so if I leave windows and/or vents cracked. I just prefer not to. I have two down comforters from IKEA, and those get me through cold nights. In the morning I turn on the furnace, using the remote switch I installed next to the overcab bed. Once it's tolerable, I get up and turn on the Wave 3, which is mounted just below the stove, facing the dinette in my midbath.
We have a Wave 3 and run it all night if it is cold enough. About the coldest overnight temp so far is low 20's F. Always keeps it at least above 50 F. After running the furnace to bring temp into low 60's the Wave 3 seams to pretty well maintain the temperature. And by time it is loosing ground my wife is often in bed and I am sitting just a few feet from the heater, which is like sitting by a fire even if the rig is only kinda warm. I got the Wave3 instead of Wave 6 because it seamed to be most recommend on this forum for LD.
I wonder if the Wave 6 set to low on not very cold nights would be to much, and then you would have to turn it off for a while?
Is that kwp112 a catalytic heater also? Looks like it has a 5,000 or 10,000 BTU output and maybe a thermostat that can turn it on and off?
I am wondering do the larger catalytic heaters produce enough moisture to be a problem? If so maybe furnace or electric is best bet if you need that much heat?
Is that kwp112 a catalytic heater also? Looks like it has a 5,000 or 10,000 BTU output and maybe a thermostat that can turn it on and off?
It is not a catalytic heater. It is either 5500 or 10,000 btu and this model does not have a thermostat although there are models that do.
Jim
We have a Wave 3 and run it all night if it is cold enough. About the coldest overnight temp so far is low 20's F. Always keeps it at least above 50 F. After running the furnace to bring temp into low 60's the Wave 3 seams to pretty well maintain the temperature. And by time it is loosing ground my wife is often in bed and I am sitting just a few feet from the heater, which is like sitting by a fire even if the rig is only kinda warm. I got the Wave3 instead of Wave 6 because it seamed to be most recommend on this forum for LD.
I wonder if the Wave 6 set to low on not very cold nights would be to much, and then you would have to turn it off for a while?
Is that kwp112 a catalytic heater also? Looks like it has a 5,000 or 10,000 BTU output and maybe a thermostat that can turn it on and off?
I am wondering do the larger catalytic heaters produce enough moisture to be a problem? If so maybe furnace or electric is best bet if you need that much heat?
I wonder if the Wave 6 set to low on not very cold nights would be to much, and then you would have to turn it off for a while?I have run the Wave 6 all night in 20* weather and it does not get too hot in the LD. Probably high 50s or so.Chris
In our 23.5' FL, we have two Wave 3s, one on the rear wall, in the bath, and another on a 5' hose, in the lounge.
Once the furnace has the taken the chill off, the two Wave 3s will keep things comfy down to 0 degrees, throughout the rig.
Cat heater in lounge | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602095131438/)
Bath catalytic heater | Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/lwade/sets/72157602104740401/)
For the 27' and 31' models, a Wave 6 is a better choice, as long as you sit away from it a distance.
Larry
Larry -- Very clever and functional bracketing. Thanks for sharing.
Ray S.
My DW gifted me a new Wave 6. Now I am in need of a reliable and experienced technician to install the quick release propane assembly.
Living in Long Beach, Ca, I believe that others on the forum in my area have had the installation completed here in the Los Angeles area.
Can any of you fine LDO members help direct me to the best people in my area to do the work?
Thank you for assisting me in this matter.
I hope to have the installation completed before I head back to Indian Cove mid February or at least before my journey back to Zion mid March.
Kent
I'll be watching responses as Kent asked questions I would also like answers for.
You might want to check RV Service Reviews (http://rvservicereviews.com/) and/or local propane suppliers/distributors for suggestions for a shop or tech who would be able to install the Wave.
Pretty sure that you wouldn't think of doing otherwise, but, IMO, like anything that's LPG-associated, installation of a propane appliance needs to be done by an experienced, skilled person with the appropriate tools and a healthy respect for the volatility of propane. :o
Joan
For folks having issues with stratification -- too hot up top, and cold at the bottom -- one could make a "reverse chimneys" that may help. It consists of a pipe running from floor level to ceiling level, (minus a few inches,) with a low speed fan at the bottom, which draws air down from the top, and splashes it on the floor to mix with the cold air. (Or thru a right angle fitting for directionality.) 4" lightweight PVC pipe would do the trick (schedule 20 or lighter if available), with one of those USB-powered fans at the bottom. Slow speed is good, as you want to avoid wind chill factors... Variable speed would be great if available.
Planted back in a corner or two, they would be less obtrusive than a head-chopping ceiling fan.
While I haven't used them in an RV, I have in garages and workshops.
And Larry, on your heater with the folding stand -- Is the sheet metal on the back of the heater substantial enough to allow mounting it with an articulated flat-screen TV mounting bracket? (Perhaps the larger 200mm version.) This would allow mounting to a solid bulkhead, but it could then swing out for more advantageous airflow. I don't know the 3 or 6's weight, so that might be an issue. In transit, it would have to be strapped securely, perhaps with supporting blocking.
Chip
I recently added a Wave 6 to my Wave 3. The Wave 3 was not quite enough with low temps around freezing so probably in the 30's before I went to bed. I was OK with about 3 layers including a down vest. My wife was away for a few days. I googled btu's output by a human body and it is about 300, so 1/10th of a Wave 3-not much. I figured it would be nice to not have to put on a down vest and have closer to 70 degrees when it is cold out.
I have to say the Wave 6 is really to much to leave on all night at times when I would like the Wave 3 on overnight-low 30's. When I leave the Wave 3 on all night it is usually set to the low setting until well down into the 20's. But I want much more warmth while I am still awake and not under down blankets.
Jay,
I too have a 27' RB. I was just wondering if you had the propane line plumbed in your area or if you might have had it done closer to my neck of the woods.
After checking with Joan's link, I have had little success finding reviews on propane line installation for the Wave heaters.
Once again, I am still looking and will most likely call Todd or Vince once the Mothership reopens after the Holidays.
Still open to personal reviews of competent propane Tech's in my area.
Kent
Kent,
We have friends who swear by their wave heaters, but they can't be easily moved around the rig and have to be plumbed into the propane system.
I've used one of these for years in various boats with good success:
https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F274830-Indoor-Safe-Portable/dp/B01DD6C4TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483227395&sr=8-1&keywords=big+buddy+heater
This heater is inexpensive, doesn't use much propane, can be used indoors, has a low O2 sensor an a tip over shut off, is portable and can be moved around inside right to where you need some heat. I don't run it at night when I'm asleep, but it is easy to light it up and get some heat in a hurry in the morning. It's a little bigger than a wave heater and requires a canister of propane, but we use those for the BBQ also, so we always have a few around. At Catalina, I like to sit out on the deck at night with the heater under my chair and watch the stars. It is decadent and comfortable.
Our Lazy Daze head isn't plumbed to the furnace (unlike the camper and fifth wheel) so the heat is cold in the early morning. I'll be bringing the buddy heater in the future.
Harold
Kent, I don't know anything about either of these businesses (or just how far they are from you), but it might be worth a call to find out if either or both are qualified to install a Wave.
Meyers RV Repair Center Torrance Serving | Los Angeles (http://www.meyersrv.com/)
EXO Mobile RV Service | Mobile RV Repair Westminster (http://www.exomobilervservice.com/)
Harold,
Thanks. I've heard and read about the Buddy in the past and had considered it as an alternative to the Wave but ultimately choose the Wave after reading it's reviews.
For now I'll take the time to find the tech to do the install of the quick connect and stay with the LD furnace in the meantime.
It'll get done. As for now, the Wave 6 will stay tucked away at home. Just another project awaiting its turn.
I do like the decadence of your "undercarriage" heating. Big Bear can get a bit nippy in November and a little more heat in the seat is always a good thing.
Kent
Joan,
Thank you for the links. I was at Myers a couple of weeks ago. The clerk was very nice and had at one time lived in Long Beach. This is where I snapped the shot of the funky double decker RV.
The mobile service seems promising. It would be nice to have the work done at home if possible.
I'll give them both a call next week.
Thanks again.
Kent
Kent,
Our friends with the Wave heater love theirs and I'm sure you will too. What a nice gift from your bride.
We'll be in Borrego Springs next weekend (1- 6 and 7) for a Geology lecture and field trip with ABDNA, and then Agua Caliente county Park (1-8 and 9) for hiking and sitting in the hot springs. Got space in your travel schedule to join us?
Have a great New Years to you and to all of the Lazy Daze Owners!
Harold
Kent, I did the plumbing myself. I was able to "T" into the gas plumbing under the right side of the oven just left of the refrigerator. I put a disconnect through the wall just to the left of the storage door under the refrigerator. I have a 9 foot hose that allows the heater to be moved around and pointed in different directions. The 9 foot hose is a bit longer than needed, I think 6-7 feet would be enough.
When I got the the Wave 6 I got a 3 foot hose and a "T" with more disconnects so I can run both heaters at once. That gets to be a bit of a mess of hoses but doable, but you won't need that part with one heater.
Jay,
Thanks for the input. While I am pretty competent in most projects I do, it generally takes a couple of goes at something to be comfortable with newly acquired skills.
Plumbing propane lines for my '15 RB is something that I prefer to have down right the first time (there may not be a second chance to get it right). So I'll defer this project to the professionals.
With that, I do appreciate your input and will take your path to heart when I find the right team.
Some things just take a little more time to accomplish. Like our LD. It took twenty years to finally get it. I certainly don't want to risk it on my skill set.
Kent
Good thinking Kent.
As a practiced shade-tree mechanic, I can do lots of repairs and get them right eventually. However, LP gas line repairs and dentistry is best left to the professionals.
HD
I wish I had bought the Wave 6 originally - but I didn't. I have the Wave 3.
What I did was have my RV repair person in Las Cruces tap into my propane line and install a quick disconnect. I find that if I close off the "door" in my mid-bath it sufficiently heats either the front or back. The heater has a five or six foot hose and that makes it easy.
In my opinion any "experienced" RV tech can tap into your propane line and install your quick disconnect. Another option I've seen is to connect the line to an outside portable tank.
You "do" want to have someone knowledgeable do this, but it's not a "super specialized" job.
I'm currently in Mexico and in the morning I run the furnace for a short time to "take the chill off" and then if it's a cold morning I run the Wave 3.
I've used one of these for years in various boats with good success:
Amazon.com: Mr. Heater F274830 MH18B Big Buddy Grey Indoor-Safe Portable... (https://www.amazon.com/Mr-Heater-F274830-Indoor-Safe-Portable/dp/B01DD6C4TC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1483227395&sr=8-1&keywords=big+buddy+heater)
Mr. Heater has a 7000' altitude limitation, the Waves work fine at 10,000', a consideration if you camp in the Rockies or in the higher areas of the Sierras.
To install a Wave, I use a kit from RV Solar Electric.
Portable heater hook up kit (http://www.rvsolarelectric.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=28&product_id=61)
Usually the propane supply is sourced from behind the stove.
The quick disconnect is mounted at floor level, under the stove in most installations.
In addition to the kit, do install a gas-rated shut off valve. The quick disconnect is sealed with o-rings that have the potential to wear and leak.
It's best to shut the gas supply off when the heater is not in use.
In many cases, the Factory propane line needs to be cut and flared, a chore that is best left to experienced personnel.
Do check for leaks after installation, using a gas leak detection fluid, a manometer or a electronic leak detector
BrassCraft 2 oz. Gas Leak Detection Solution-PSC1094 L - The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-2-oz-Gas-Leak-Detection-Solution-PSC1094-L/205204429)
Larry
"In my opinion any "experienced" RV tech can tap into your propane line and install your quick disconnect."
---
I suppose this depends on the amount and level of "experience" of the technician, and how much of that is with propane line and equipment installations. A lashed-up LPG installation, of components, or using the wrong tools (or using them incorrectly, e.g., using only one wrench on a connection and twisting the copper piping, or mis-using a flaring tool) will give a leaky and dangerous result.
Overcautious? Perhaps, but overestimating a tech's skill set and/or underestimating the potential results of a poorly done job might really ruin one's day!
As ever, YMMV.
Joan
In many cases, the Factory propane line needs to be cut and flared, a chore that is best left to experienced personnel.
Do check for leaks after installation, using a gas leak detection fluid, a manometer or a electronic leak detector
BrassCraft 2 oz. Gas Leak Detection Solution-PSC1094 L - The Home Depot (http://www.homedepot.com/p/BrassCraft-2-oz-Gas-Leak-Detection-Solution-PSC1094-L/205204429)
Larry
While not rocket science, experience is preferred and proper tools are necessary. The leak test, as Larry indicates, is most important. DO NOT RELY ON THE THE SMELL TEST ONLY! I replaced the propane regulator and hoses on my last RV. Did the smell test and nothing. Then did a soap bubble test which indicated a leak, so don't forego this important task!
I have seen Larry's installation (with the kit from rvsolarelectric.com) and it is a thing of *beauty*. Very elegant, actually, with only the quick-release adapter showing on the outside. Downright minimalist.
I just made an appointment with Manny at Myers RV in Torrance, Ca to have my propane quick connect installed.
Total cost should be around $225.00 For me, cheap at twice the price. Expect 2 1/2 days in the shop and ready to go.
When I questioned Manny in regards to his familiarity with LD, I was informed that he regularly services 6 LD's. Very encouraging and he gave every indication of being very professional.
I'll keep you posted on my final results.
Kent
I just made an appointment with Manny at Myers RV in Torrance, Ca to have my propane quick connect installed.
I'll keep you posted on my final results.
Kent
I used Myers for replacement of the start capacitor of the A/C under warranty on our '06 TK years ago. Dometic put them and me through the wringer requiring multiple tests (and repeated visits by me) before they would authorize the repair. I found Myers to be quite competent, but some of their posted services prices I recall being high. Haven't used them since, as no other problems have arisen with the rig (fingers crossed) and I have been lucky to have become a FOL (those in the know will decipher that 😉). -- Jon
Jon,
I had been by Myers for generator oil a while back. They appear knowledgable and your endorsement is encouraging.
Thanks
Kent
I just made an appointment with Manny at Myers RV in Torrance, Ca to have my propane quick connect installed.
Total cost should be around $225.00 For me, cheap at twice the price. Expect 2 1/2 days in the shop and ready to go.
When I questioned Manny in regards to his familiarity with LD, I was informed that he regularly services 6 LD's. Very encouraging and he gave every indication of being very professional.
I'll keep you posted on my final results.
Kent
I'll keep you posted on my final results.Please do, Kent. If you are satisfied, I'll add this facility to the list of recommended repair locations.Chris