Going south on I 95 at 55-60 mph when the trans downshifts for no reason. That is I was not increasing speed or on a hill. I pulled over and checked the trans fluid. It was at a normal level, pink and smelled slightly sweet, not burnt. I
I decided to go to the next exit. The dash showed no warning lights and guages all normal at the time.
As I pulled back onto the interstate the van shifted normally through 1, and 2 but did not shift up out of 3. As I was only going 45 mph I manually shifted from D to 3 and there was no change in speed or RPM.
At the next exit as I pulled off the interstate I got a Check Engine Light (CEL). I do not have a reader. I am about to call coach net. Is there a link or fuse or something I should check? I believe the shifting is programmed and electronically controlled.
John
Trans flush performed at 31,256 miles. Current mileage 34,116.
this happened to me a few years ago in downtown atlanta while i was in the hov lane. it felt like it shifted into first. speed dropped from sixty to about twenty five and rpm shot way up by the time i could get over five lanes while in a panic it started working ok. didn't throw a code and it has never happened again. i have not had the transmission flushed but have had the fluid changed before this happened. a mechanic couldn't find anything wrong. joe
Called Coach-Net. Waiting for a tech to call. Sitting near Kings Bay, GA.
Joe, thanks. Please forgive the bad manners. I hope I'm as lucky.
John ... I'm working the Internet for anyone with a similar problem. So far, I haven't found anything. I'll keep searching. Btw, is your tow/haul off? And do you have an OD button on the end of the shift arm? I've never tried to drive the E450 with both the tow/haul engaged and the OD turned off. Please know that I'm grasping at straws.
I'll go back to the Internet search.
Quick Edit:
Found this Ford CS phone number for Ford E 450 ... 800-444-3311. My Ford manual has a CS phone number that I used last year, but I don't have that number so I hope this one will work if you need help from Ford.
Called Coach-Net. Waiting for a tech to call. Sitting near Kings Bay.
Traxless, thanks. It is a 07 so no OD button. The Tow Haul was off. When doing the driving check toggeling the Tow Haul on and off at the dash (button not brake) made no difference in gear.
John ... your truck may be in Limp Mode. Please note the following cut & paste.
"Limp home mode is when the PCM detects a severe transmission problem. The PCM limits the transmission operation to try and prevent damage. A lot of people say that limp home is only a certain gear, but that isn't correct. The PCM decides what the trans can still do with the failure that it has, and uses what is still useable.
An example of limp home would be if the PCM detected that the pressure control solenoid that operates the overdrive clutch didn't work. In that case 2nd and 5th gears wouldn't work, so the trans will shift 1-3-4, since that's all that it can do."
So sorry for your troubles. I wish I could be of more help.
John. If you are on I95 near Kingsland, GA, there is a highly rated Ford Superstore called Murray Ford of Kingsland. Some of the reviews came from all the usual places like FB. This Ford shop received very good reviews from consumers at New Cars, Used Cars, Car Reviews and Pricing | Edmunds.com (http://www.edmunds.com). The dealership's phone number is 888-375-3630 and the address is 2030 Hwy 40E, Kingsland, GA. If you need for me to search for another transmission resource, please let me know.
Coach Net called the local Ford dealer, they did not say which one, but this is a small town. The dealership could not take an RV. Looks like a tow to Jacksonville tomorrow. Luckily I was across the street from a Good Sam campground. So I have air conditioning. Time for dinner and a book and maybe one Belgian Ale. It will be to dark to do anything on the car soon.
I will let the pros handle this tomorrow. Traxless confirmed my suspicion of the "limp home mode".
John ... maybe two (2) Belgian Ale. Crossing my fingers it's something like a bad sensor. Please take care and keep us in the loop as you move forward on this matter.
Best of luck, John and do keep us posted!
Good luck John, glad your able to Rick in for the night in a decent place. Hope things look better in the AM.
Coach Net will cover the tow to a qualified repair shop in Jacksonville as there is not a place that can take a RV in Kingsland, GA. The timeline for a Ford Dealership was 3-4 weeks, so we are going to a transmission shop Coach Net knows about. I would have preferred a Ford dealership but not willing to wait that long. I did not write the name of the shop down. I will have to trust Coach Net's directory as I have little ability to research. I am about to empty the black and gray tanks and secure things as I would for a drive.
Good luck! We used their reco once, turned out very well.
Coach Net had the RV towed to a shop in Jacksonville Fl. After looking at it they found the fluid contaminated and it not using gears 2, 4, and 5. I have them the go ahead to do the work. The shop seems well respected and there was a nice mix of cars and trucks ranging from cheep to expensive. There was a ventage Willies Wagon and new vehicles. The floor and work benchs were spotless. This is a large shop and all the car bays were busy. They had several heavy lifts that would handle trucks much bigger than our Ford E450s.
They said that there should be no issue with parts.
If all works well I will post the name of the shop.
John, any idea what the contaminate is or how it got that way?
Jim
I have no idea what the contaminated the fluid. Or for that mater what it means. For example it could be the wrong fluid was used in the last trans service (unlikely); the fluid was burnt by high temps; or something broke into small bits. That is why they will take it apart, clean and replace what is needed.
The torque converter scattered. A rebuilt trans is required. The warranty is only good locally. A big hit to the piggy bank but I should be on the road Wednesday or Thursday.
John, sorry to hear about your expensive problem.
A major failure like that at such low miles seems strange. When you had the transmission serviced recently, was it at a Ford dealer? And do you know for a fact that the correct transmission fluid was used?
Good luck,
Steve K
The torque converter scattered. A rebuilt trans is required.
Dang as in big time DANG. I wish I had a spare transmission. Maybe in another year, it won't feel so bad? It usually takes me about a year to heal from those kinds of hits. Take care/
The service was not at a Ford dealership. I do not know what fluid was used. The shop I used worked on trucks and RVs and has a good reputation so I will not mention them. That said I will not return there, I can't help but feel the work done there trashed the trans. There is no evidence that is the case, just a gut feeling.
John
Something of this nature shocks many of us to the core. We wait anxiously to hear the good news and dread the bad.
The latter is the case and not much can be said at this point. One thing, though, you are safe and still with us. We are grateful for that.
Take care, John and we will see you on the road.
Kent
It's too bad GM owned Allison and would't let others use them in certain situations.
Allison seems to be one of the few automatic transmissions that hold up well enough under adverse conditions such as
in our RV's.
On my 96, the E4OD transmission went out at 97,000 miles, something I learned was common to that model.
It overheats and eventually blows out the front pump seal. I used a Ford re manufactured that came with a 3 year 75,000 mile warranty good at any Ford dealer.
"I do not know what fluid was used. The shop I used worked on trucks and RVs and has a good reputation so I will not mention them. That said I will not return there, I can't help but feel the work done there trashed the trans. There is no evidence that is the case, just a gut feeling. "
John, if you saved the receipt, you might see what fluid they used. Even when I have service at a non Ford location, they will have a parts list of what they used.
If it were me, I would ask the shop doing your repair to save some of the fluid. There must be a place that can test the contaminated fluid to see if the wrong kind was used when you had the transmission flushed a few thousand miles ago.
Steve K
Just called the transmission shop. They said the torque converter was a weak part. The fluid used was not an issue. Makes me feel better about the place I had the service done.
Does anyone have the model number for the transmission used on the 07 E-450? I want to have it handy when I pick up DaVee (our MBs name) tomorrow. It is the 5 speed with Tow/Haul.
I will spend the first night back in the rig at Ft. Clinch State Park, Fl. A short drive north of Jacksonville.
John
07 MidBath - green.
John, would the Mothership have that information? You could call them it is just 3:22pm on this coast...
~Liam
98 - MB
Finally got to the Companion. The name I was looking for was 5R110W TorqShift.
Also thanks everyone for the help and concern. This was a very stressful trip. I drove here to attend the funeral of my dear sister in law. My wife wanted to stay in our RV. The important part of the trip went ok. The RV has been repaired. Our lives will go on and Gina and I will take a little more time the look at beauty, and show love to our friends.
John.
There is one thing for certain John and that is you have handled this way better than I might have. Your high energy and optimistic points of view makes reading your posts a joy. Take care.
"...Just called the transmission shop. They said the torque converter was a weak part..."
John,
Very interested in the final outcome of your repair. Costs, longevity...etc.
Due to yours and Andy's recent transmission troubles, I have added one more item to my LD Christmas fund.
YMMV, but I have budgeted about 85-95,000 miles of life to my '15 transmission and estimate about a 15 year life span at an average yearly mileage of 6500.
An estimated $4500 cost for a transmission has brought my monthly deposit to about $25 to $30.
These are all estimated and may be off one way or another, but will surely serve me well when the time comes.
I realize that this does not make your troubles disappear, but know that we all learn from each others life events when given the opportunity.
Again, travel safely.
Kent
I went with a rebuilt transmission. The cost in Jacksonville for the trans was $3563.00. There were additional charges for labor, fluids, tax bringing the out the door costs to $3813.47. There is no national warranty available so I will spend a few days camping and motoring around Jacksonville before heading north. Because of the recent flooding from the hurricane the ford dealers could not work on the RV for three to four weeks. I can not stay in Florida that long other wise I would have opted to have the work done at a dealership. That said this place has been in business dating back some 20+ years and had good reviews on the limited search tools available to me. Hopefully the trans will hold together awhile.
John
07 mid bath
I've mentioned this before, but it's worth saying again: if you plan to have a rebuilt transmission installed on a non-emergency basis, or to have your existing transmission rebuilt as a maintenance task, I highly recommend John Wood Automotive (http://www.jwtt.com) in Holtville, CA. You can search for my earlier posts for more details, but the gist is this: John Wood specializes in rebuilding Ford transmissions, and he installs custom-made beefed-up parts in places where his long experience (he worked for Ford for more than ten years before opening his own shop) tells him that the Ford parts are failure-prone. Billet-machined parts replace stampings, and so on. A couple of years ago I had my 2003 Lazy Daze's transmission rebuilt at John Wood's shop, and a larger transmission cooler installed, for a total cost just under $1,900.
Wood also ships remanufactured transmissions, so you could potentially have a local shop install one of his beefed-up trannies. My feeling is that if you're going to shell out for a rebuilt transmission, it might as well be an upgraded one rather than the same old Ford version, built as cheaply as Ford could make it.
I have bookmarked John Wood. Thanks. That said, I was not under the impression that the transmission was built on the cheap. We have 94,000 miles on ours and if it blows next week, I would not feel it did not have a full life. I have always been amazed that a large handful of rubber seals do not leak sooner than they do.
Andy,
Thanks for that reminder. Living in So Cal all my life, I wondered, "Where in the world is Carmen San Diego"? I mean Holtville, California.
Google Earth helped me out and it's not too far from home. For others on LDO, I grabbed some sat pics to give John's shop a little perspective.
Looks like he is keeping busy...
Kent
I went with a rebuilt transmission. The cost in Jacksonville for the trans was $3563.00. There were additional charges for labor, fluids, tax bringing the out the door costs to $3813.47. There is no national warranty available so I will spend a few days camping and motoring around Jacksonville before heading north. Because of the recent flooding from the hurricane the ford dealers could not work on the RV for three to four weeks. I can not stay in Florida that long other wise I would have opted to have the work done at a dealership. That said this place has been in business dating back some 20+ years and had good reviews on the limited search tools available to me. Hopefully the trans will hold together awhile.
John
07 mid bath
John, if you are pleased with your transmission repair, please consider posting a review in the Repair, Maintenance and Service Facilities thread.
Chris
I've mentioned this before, but it's worth saying again: if you plan to have a rebuilt transmission installed on a non-emergency basis, or to have your existing transmission rebuilt as a maintenance task, I highly recommend John Wood Automotive (http://www.jwtt.com) in Holtville, CA. You can search for my earlier posts for more details, but the gist is this: John Wood specializes in rebuilding Ford transmissions, and he installs custom-made beefed-up parts in places where his long experience (he worked for Ford for more than ten years before opening his own shop) tells him that the Ford parts are failure-prone. Billet-machined parts replace stampings, and so on. A couple of years ago I had my 2003 Lazy Daze's transmission rebuilt at John Wood's shop, and a larger transmission cooler installed, for a total cost just under $1,900.
Wood also ships remanufactured transmissions, so you could potentially have a local shop install one of his beefed-up trannies. My feeling is that if you're going to shell out for a rebuilt transmission, it might as well be an upgraded one rather than the same old Ford version, built as cheaply as Ford could make it.
Andy, I hope you don't mind that I hijacked your message and used it to prime the pump in the RMS thread under Lazy Daze General Info and Discussions forum.
Chris
Thanks for that reminder. Living in So Cal all my life, I wondered, "Where in the world is Carmen San Diego"? I mean Holtville, California.
Holtville is billed as the carrot capital of the world.
No wonder I like them so much, it's my Father's family California ancestral home.
In 1910, my Minnesota born great-grand parents moved from the cold North to the desert heat of Holtville, California.
They were German dairy farmers who came to claim their 160 acres of bare land and the rights to irrigation water.
Along with them came their city raised daughter, my Father's mother, and their new, german-born son-in-law..
My grand-mother told the story of how she cried for the first year they lived in Holtville. It was hot, windy and dusty, with no utilities except for an irrigation ditch across the street from the homestead. No place for a city girl but she adapted well and lived to 97.
During and after WWI many of the area's numerous germans 'became' Swiss. My last name should be Wogazke (my grandfather's name) but was changed to the english sounding Wade. For many years, there was a local dance hall and bar called the "The Swiss Club". Polkas and beer anyone?
Fortunate or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, my Father and his seven siblings grew up and left the Imperial Valley, except for one brother. WWII extracted the boys and sent them overseas. The daughters went to Los Angeles to find husbands. I still have cousins living in Holtville and the surrounding area.
We spent a lot of time in the Valley while I was growing up, the winters are beautiful, the summers not so wonderful.
It's a wonder any of them survived the heat before A/C became available. People can be tough when they don't know better.
It is where I learn to love the desert.
Someday we may visit john Wood for a transmission 'spa' treatment.
Larry
Holtville is close to Mexico, the Salton Sea, Anza-Borrego state park (California's largest state park in area) as well as NAF (Naval Air Facility) El Centro, which is the winter training base for the Blue Angels. A good time to visit Holtville to have a tranny worked on would be in March so you could watch the training runs which lead up to their first air show of the season. The 2017 show is on March 11th.
Blue Angels 2017 Schedule (https://www.blueangels.navy.mil/show/)
Larry said, "During and after WWI many of the area's numerous germans 'became' Swiss."
My first experience with the notion of discrimination--my fourth grade teacher told us a similar story in 1964 about her family's German name being changed for the reasons you mentioned (she died a couple of years ago at 102--I thought she was old when she was my teacher, but now realize she was younger than I am now :-[ ).
One of my classmates was the daughter of Holocaust survivors who came to the states as post-war refugees (her dad was a DR who was somehow lured to the boonies of north MO; her mom was one of my Girl Scout leaders). I never thought of Camille as different in any way, but as an adult, I think how hard it must have been to be the only Jewish kid singing Christmas songs in the school concerts, etc.).
Reminds me, again, of how thankful I am for learning new things, and how easy it can be to stay stuck in not knowing what I don't know. I so appreciate when y'all share these little snippets & digressions. Thx, Larry.
Lynne
Update. The transmission was installed by American Transmission, (800) 233-3766, 5337 Beach Blvd, Jacksonville FL. I am happy with the work. They recognized that I was on a important trip instead of a vacation and did everything they could to get me back on the road. This involved jumping me in line over fleet customers that had the luxury of hanging on a day or so. The same model trans was installed and some updates performed. I do not know what the updates were. Because I am not from Jacksonville they said that if I have an issue to contact them and they will try to find a shop that will hemp me.
I told them I would camp locally for a couple days. They said in that case I should stop by before going north and they will do a check before I head north.
The words seemed more than just talk. Hopefully I will never have to find out.
Tonight I'm camping at Ft Clinch State Park Fl.
John (happy camper) DaCrema
07 green Mid Bath.
I john I wonder what type of place performed your flush. Name not important but was it a trans shop, dealership or one of the oil change places. Glad you are back on the road.
Garry
Garry, the shop that did the work was a automotive - truck repair shop. They are mechanics, not auto body. After taking to American Automotive I am not at all sure the blame lies with the shop the did the fluid flush. AA said the correct fluid was in the RV. The contamination was from the torque converter failure breaking things inside the trans. The original owner had the dealer look at the trans when the RV was new for "klunking" when placing the RV in gear. I have noticed the issue from time to time. Some times, not often, it was difficult to shift. The trans is now very quiet when going from P to D. There is no locking. But Florida is very flat.
Thanks John
I was asking because I have mixed feelings about a transmission flushes.
I hope you transmission lasts a long time now.
Garry
You're not the only one who has mixed feelings about them. Many forums (fora?) for other vehicles --- Volvos, Subarus, and Full-size Chevy trucks among others -- have participants who believe that trans flushes 'stir up trouble' in higher-mileage vehicles. That is, particulates (bits o' metal) that have settled out in apparently non-harmful corners are re-introduced into the general fluid flow, and can cause problems as they settle back out after the flush.
Forum participants usually recommend doing a self-pumped fluid change, where the transmission fluid line is interrupted somewhere along the path (usually at the trans cooler) and old fluid is removed as new is added via the transmission's own internal pump. Outflow is monitored until color is improved. This complete fluid exchange, coupled with change of filters (if installed) is seen as a kinder, gentler approach.
Of course, I'm not a transmission mechanic, and have yet to attempt this myself (although it is on the docket for next spring) but it seems like a reasonable path to me.
Chip
Please read this through. I am aware of the theory reguarding trans fluid changes.
This was not the first trans flush on the transmission and may have been the third in 34k miles. I purchased the RV used. The first owner had a issue shortly after purchas and took the RV to a Ford dealer. The second owner flipped the RV after the first owner died. Note, the family purchased the RV to use but family dynamics changed as the children got into junior and high school, so the RV went up for sale to my benifit. When I got home I'm light of very good records of care and stuff I saw no flush on a relitively young trans 4K at purchas plus the drive across country with side trips, so around 7k miles at 4-5 years. I changed the trans fluid on age not on miles. I did the last change at at a little over 34k miles some 5 years later.
The issue with hydrolic fluid as it relates to transmissions is the if you don't do the change on regular intervals don't do them at all. You or the next owner will have to replace the trans. Most likely sooner than later, but probably not by a lot. But a well maintained and well built trans with regular changes should out last a similar trans that has not had regular proper maintenance.
I now believe this trans was doomed from birth. I hope the rebuilt one lasts longer. I ageee with Andy that if you have the luxury to go with a more robust build.
Steve has a good idea.
I send my oil samples from my gas engines and two diesels to Blackstone labs for a full oil analysis and have been very happy with their results and service. I believe they do trans. oil as well.
Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/)
HD
Andy's suggestion is excellent. John Wood Transmissions are bulletproof. I have one in my diesel tow vehicle. It is a "Frankenstein transmission" full of custom parts, alison parts, extra clutches and John's custom valve body. John asked how I want it to shift, what rpm's I like to shift at, etc., and then built a custom transmission based on the weight I tow, the hp and torque of the truck, and my preferences.
My first transmission in my 2002 F350 7.3l TD went at 10K miles on the way from San Diego to Alaska while towing a big fifth wheel. Rebuilt Ford transmission replaced under warranty while on the road. Second one went at 34K miles while pulling a big trailerable commercial fishing boat. Replaced again by Ford. E4OD/4R100 transmissions were terrible. When that transmission started getting weak at 60K miles, I had John build me a transmission. John said " if you can blow this up, I'll build you another for free." John's rebuild is really as good as they come and he does the newer transmissions as well.
The truck is now chipped, puts out nearly 700lb. of torque and still pulls the boat with ease. Transmission works perfectly. When I get a fluid flush, I drive back to John's shop in Holtville and have him do the service. I don't let anyone else touch it.
When we pull the trigger for the Lazy Daze, my wife knows I am going to miss the torque of that diesel, the exhaust brake, and John's transmission. We'll keep the truck for the boat.
Regarding Chip's comments on transmission flushes:
When John Wood replaces the fluid in my transmission, He has a machine that circulates the transmission fluid through filters, and heats the fluid at the same time to get the old gunk out prior to refilling with new fluid. The transmission and the torque converter get flushed with heated, filtered trans. fluid. He subsequently replaces the trans fluid with a full synthetic. Last time he did mine at 20K miles, he said not to come back for 30K miles due to the good condition of the old trans fluid.
The E4OD/4R100 found on Ford trucks and vans prior to 2004 were essentially the same transmission and they all failed. I had two in my 1995 F350 and three in my 2002 F350 prior to my JWT. I hope the newer 5R110 and 6R140 holds up better.
There several ways of flushing a transmission.
One uses a machine to force fluids through the transmission, such as the one John Wood uses. This is the type of machine that people worry about disturbing old deposits and causing harm. Operator skill enters into his process.
Another way is a passive flush. The old fluid are expelled through the transmission cooler's outlet, replenished with fresh ATF fluid, poured into the transmission filler tube. This process does nothing to harm the transmission since it uses the existing fluid flow that exist when the engine is idling.
Better description.
Yahoo! Groups (https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lifewithalazydazerv/conversations/messages/111199)
Larry
John, sorry to learn of the tranny problem. We all missed you at the NELD mini rally on Chesapeake Bay. Have a good winter and hope to see you at the Mt. Airy rally.