I've read that many people have tapped into the main propane line to run space heaters (i.e. Wave, etc...). I actually had the person who works on my RV here in Las Cruces do that.
However, I've also seen people run these heaters using a propane tank that they place just outside their RV. Are they drilling a hole for the hose in the floor of their RV? It seems that this way would be a better way to go if you were running the heater a lot - you could just swap out the tank and go in your tow car to get it filled.
Has anyone done this? Which way do you prefer?
Our Olympian cat heater (predecessor to the Wave 3) is plumbed in. In normal usage, consumption is so low compared to other appliances that running low on propane has never been a concern. However, when using these, windows should be kept ajar, so I guess snaking a hose out one would be an option. Generally, when you need heat, bugs coming through an open screen will not be an issue.
Steve
In the MB, the easiest way to plumb into Your LD's propane system is to remove the stove, allowing access the propane line.
The line is cut and flared, before a tee is installed.
A new propane line is run to the bottom of the cabinet where a valve and a quick disconnect (QD) fitting are install.
The QD is located in the cabinet's kick space, under the stove.
Other floor plans have different locations for the QD. The QD can be located in alternative places, near the propane tank, depending on the floor plan. In these situations, the propane line is accessed under the floor, at the propane tank and regulator.
In a MB the alternative propane QD can be located forward, under the MB's dinette.
When the heater is not in use, it can be quickly and easily disconnected and stored.
I use a kit from RV Solar Electric that includes 5' hose, quick-disconnect and propane fittings.
Portable heater hook up kit (http://www.rvsolarelectric.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=28&product_id=61)
Add a gas-rated shut-off valve, to securely turn the gas off when not in use.
Installing this kit requires a tube flaring tool, plus the ability to make a gas-tight flare in the cut propane line.
Leak testing, after installing, is mandatory
Best left to an experienced tech. Don't want anyone to get hurt or burned.
You will love having the heater next winter, right now, not so much.
Larry
The people you saw with a tank outside their RV were probably using an "extended a stay" which allows them to Connect an external propane tank to the onboard propane system. This allows you to drive your tank to get it filled without ever moving the RV if you have a tow vehicle. I would recommend hooking the catalytic heater into your existing onboard propane system as opposed to running a hose out the window and getting an extend the stay if you intend to really stay in cold climates long enough and don't want to move the RV.
Have you or do you know of anyone that has actually installed the extend a stay on their LD. I have a 2003 30' IB and the gas line doesn't seem to be very flexible, though I have not actually detached it from the tank. I have some concern that the line would not bend enough to allow the extra room for the extend a stay "manafold" to be installed.
Since most RV appliances, BBQs, lanterns, etc., require 'high pressure' (or have their own regulator) the best location for an Extend A Stay is at the outlet of the LP tank and prior to the regulator. That's where mine has been these last twelve years. Yes, there is enough flex (about 4") to accommodate the in-line device. If you're not comfortable with doing the work most RV Service Dept.'s will know how. As to 'heaters' I have no experience.
I also carry two (2) 6' LP hoses which I connect to give me 12' of maneuverability. That way, with the tank on the street side I can lay the hose in front of the front tires and place my BBQ on the curb side. Works for me! 8)
"Since most RV appliances, BBQs, lanterns, etc., require 'high pressure' (or have their own regulator)..."
This statement could be confusing, as it appears to lump together two different categories of propane devices. (I know you didn't mean to, but it could be read that way.)
Just to clarify: as far as I know, the interior appliances in our RVs--the water heater, fridge, furnace, stove*, and catalytic heater (if installed)--require low pressure (about 11 inches of water). Supplying it is the job of the regulator mounted next to the propane tank.
However, propane-powered standalone devices such as lanterns, barbecues, Mr. Heater Portable Buddy and the like, expect high pressure--they're designed to be connected directly to propane tanks, so they have their own regulators. It's important not to mix up the two types of devices.
"the best location for an Extend A Stay is at the outlet of the LP tank and prior to the regulator."
Right. That way it can feed high-pressure propane from an external tank to your RV's built-in regulator, which will bring it down to the low pressure needed by inside appliances. And most Extend-A-Stay type hookups can also supply high-pressure propane to an outside barbecue or similar device that is equipped to use it.
* I understand that the stove has some kind of internal regulator. I get the impression it's a safety measure to prevent dangerous flare-ups if the main regulator fails. I'm sure the more knowledgeable members here can explain better than I can.
Have you or do you know of anyone that has actually installed the extend a stay on their LD. I have a 2003 30' IB and the gas line doesn't seem to be very flexible, though I have not actually detached it from the tank. I have some concern that the line would not bend enough to allow the extra room for the extend a stay "manafold" to be installed.
In most application, an extend-a-stay requires cutting of the propane line and then flaring the cut end. Space in the line needs to be made to accommodate the length of the extend-a-stay.
The connections need to be absolutely gas tight and is definitely not a job for amateurs.
Larry
I understand that the stove has some kind of internal regulator. I get the impression it's a safety measure to prevent dangerous flare-ups if the main regulator fails. I'm sure the more knowledgeable members here can explain better than I can.
My understanding is the stove's internal regulator is there to prevent flare ups in case the main propane regulator fails, which would turn the burners into blow torches, if in use at the time of failure.
While the internal regulator is a fine place to check the propane pressure, using a manometer, it will allow more are than 11" pounds of pressure to pass.
I have seen one pass more than 14'"s, while adjusting the main pressure regulator.
Larry
"The connections need to be absolutely gas tight and is definitely not a job for amateurs."
----
I believe that some RVers, perhaps more than "some", and certainly more than a few LPG dispensers, too, underestimate (sometimes to the point of cluelessness) the volatility of propane and the potential for disaster if a propane system is not maintained, leak checks done regularly, and/or an installation of a propane appliance or add-on system is inexpertly/carelessly done.
I definitely advise an owner to research the behaviors of LPG, to know what to look for (and smell!) to do a surface check of the system, and to understand the how-to and tools needed to do an installation in order to understand the process, but unless the person has real knowledge, experience, and training in propane systems and the proper tools to do the work correctly and safely, please do follow Larry's counsel that "gas" jobs should be left to experienced professionals.
Working with LPG in any capacity is not a "Here, hold my beer; gotta light a match to see where the leak is coming from!" job. At least, not more than once! :o
Before you go to all the trouble to install a catalytic heater I suggest you give a portable Buddy heater a try.
Portable Buddy Heater (http://www.mrheater.com/portable-buddy-heater.html)
Only about $100 so if you don't like it you're not out much, compared to the higher expense and modifications usually involved with a catalytic heater.
We originally bought our Buddy heater for our old Vanagon camper and when we got our LD just moved it over, thinking we'd eventually go the catalytic route. But the Buddy heater works so well we've never bothered. I've not had a catalytic heater of course but at this point see little reason to try one.
We just use the 1lb. propane cylinders in our Buddy heater. I stock up periodically at Walmart, where they are relatively cheap, and it's legal to store them inside, unlike a refillable bottle.
I like the fact that the Buddy heater can simply be picked up and moved to the most appropriate location for the circumstances.
The Buddy heater may actually be safer. Yes you need to leave a vent or window cracked and shouldn't sleep with it on, just like with a catalytic heate , but it also has an oxygen sensor that will shut it off if the oxygen level gets too low.
We've had our Buddy heater for about 15-20 years now and it's been entirely trouble free and requires no maintenance that I can see.
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
Terry, we were in your town today, touring with a realtor. You live in a nice place!
I have a place in mind to store the Portable Buddy, but cannot find measurements on the site. Can you help me out?
Thank you
Paul, I have that heater as well. Box measurements are 9" x 14" x 14." Let me know if you need measurements of the actual unit. I have model MH9BX.
Thanks Hilola, that will fit. I am convinced this will replace my old old Coleman catalytic heater. No plumbing, portable, plenty of heat.
The Buddy heater may actually be safer. Yes you need to leave a vent or window cracked and shouldn't sleep with it on, just like with a catalytic heate , but it also has an oxygen sensor that will shut it off if the oxygen level gets too low.
All the current Olympian models have an O2 sensor. However, the cat combustion temperature is so low and the surface area so large that it is safer at low O2 levels (high altitude) than a non-cat heater. However, the big differences are the extremely low to non-existent CO emissions of the cat heater compared to conventional combustion, and the low probability of starting a fire from accidental contact with clothes, etc.
Steve
Paul,
I've spent time in Palo Alto, greater LA, Phoenix, Oklahoma, Denver and saw a lot of the world in the USAF. I've never been happier than in the Carson Valley. Nice people, pleasant 4 season climate, just the right mix of urban and rural for me but most of all ready access to the mountains and desert I love. Winter skiing, summer cycling. Close to Reno, a great little city that's rising, and to Northern California, where we came from and where our son still lives in SF. I call this place Montana in California because it sort of combines the best of both. The downside might be wind but we've adjusted and come to actually like it. And modest urban amenities, like dining if that's important. Good medical care. Doctors like the access to the outdoors. And we could afford a house with an RV garage.
Terry
2003 26.5'RB
Gardnerville, NV
In most application, an extend-a-stay requires cutting of the propane line and then flaring the cut end. Space in the line needs to be made to accommodate the length of the extend-a-stay.
The connections need to be absolutely gas tight and is definitely not a job for amateurs.
Larry
I found this video on how to install it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb6H448KsP8
"I suggest you give a portable Buddy heater a try."
Reading the specs for this product, it says the max. elevation it's designed for is 7,000'.
Ever tried it at say 9 or 10k feet?
Ed
Answered my own question. ,
Looked at the video about this unit. It said that because of the Oxygen Depletion System, the unit can't be used over 7,000'. I guess there is simply not enough oxygen at higher elevations to allow the unit to operate.
"I suggest you give a portable Buddy heater a try."
Reading the specs for this product, it says the max. elevation it's designed for is 7,000'.
Ever tried it at say 9 or 10k feet?
We have use a Wave 3 at altitudes as high as 10,000', without issues, for over a decade .
A Buddy uses high-pressure, disposable cylinders, greatly increasing the cost of operation, while a Wave uses the onboard propane supply, supplied at a very low pressure, This makes the rare but potential leak much less likely or severe, while significantly dropping the cost of operation, a consideration for winter operation.
Larry.
We love our Wave Catalytic heater. We have been using one for more than 15 years. We do not have ie plumbed to the main LP tank. We use a separete tank, placed outside. I run the hos through an open window and seal the opening with a strip of pipe insulation. There is another window nearby that i leave open at least three inches for the device to access O2. We have never had a problem. If we are staying high in sufreezing night temps and run out of LP, we switch out the tank for a full one is n the nearest town. We tried the various Heater Buddies and found them of marginal use due to need to constantly replace the botles. That adds up over tim. Catalutic is best, IMO.
The portable Buddy heater's can be plummed into the propain system or use a more economical larger portable tanks. We have used these for years but not in enclosed spaces because they use up breathable oxygen and out put harmfull gasses more then the wave systems. We use them outside to heat open air situations or where there can be good airflow while people are awake.
~Liam
98 26.6 - MB
Installation of my new Wave 6 Catalytic heater is complete. I am vey satisfied with the install done by Meyers RV in Torrance Ca.
After a brief discussion with Manny at Meyers as to the possible location of the propane quick disconnect its final placement was very satisfactory.
We had originally contemplated the connection placement inside the cabinet below the sink in the RB. It was thought that it may be feasible to mount it midway between the two shelves in the bulkhead between the cabinet and the furnace.
The final installation was in a more useable location in my opinion. It is now just right of the furnace grill and accessible without opening a cabinet or putting a hole in the furnace grill (something that I believe other LDO members have done). It is above foot level and nestled neatly beside the door jam (bulkhead?) of the RB.
While I have not tested the connection as of yet, Manny and the other team members at Meyers ran extensive tests for leaks and functionality.
I am now waiting for the Wave legs to arrive from Amazon. By Saturday night I should be feeling the warmth of my new upgrade.
Final cost for this professional installation was $372.50 ($248 of that was labor and $114.49 was for parts). Everyone at Meyers RV was very personable, curtious and down to earth. It's an experience I won't mind repeating. Manny even helped with my Flojet Macerator connection at no extra cost.
Here are some shots of the final installation.
Kent
Installation of my new Wave 6 Catalytic heater is complete. I am vey satisfied with the install done by Meyers RV in Torrance Ca.
After a brief discussion with Manny at Meyers as to the possible location of the propane quick disconnect its final placement was very satisfactory.
We had originally contemplated the connection placement inside the cabinet below the sink in the RB. It was thought that it may be feasible to mount it midway between the two shelves in the bulkhead between the cabinet and the furnace.
The final installation was in a more useable location in my opinion. It is now just right of the furnace grill and accessible without opening a cabinet or putting a hole in the furnace grill (something that I believe other LDO members have done). It is above foot level and nestled neatly beside the door jam (bulkhead?) of the RB.
While I have not tested the connection as of yet, Manny and the other team members at Meyers ran extensive tests for leaks and functionality.
I am now waiting for the Wave legs to arrive from Amazon. By Saturday night I should be feeling the warmth of my new upgrade.
Final cost for this professional installation was $372.50 ($248 of that was labor and $114.49 was for parts). Everyone at Meyers RV was very personable, curtious and down to earth. It's an experience I won't mind repeating. Manny even helped with my Flojet Macerator connection at no extra cost.
Here are some shots of the final installation.
Kent
Kent, would you like to have Meyers RV added to the recommended list of repair facilities? If so, please post their address.
Chris
Chris,
Meyers RV has a nice LD following already from what I was told. If these LD owners are on LDO then perhaps they can concur as to my satisfactory review.
After speaking with Manny at Meyers, I get the impression that they are dedicated to getting things done right.
They had my job completed in 2 1/2 days and except for the quick disconnect itself, I would never have known they had taken my galley apart.
Located in LA county they are centrally located in Torrance CA at 433 Alaska Avenue (310) 328-1515. Not far off the 405 and Crenshaw.
I'm covering all my bases. The Mothership, my local Ford truck center and Meyers RV. Life is good.
Kent
Nice, clean installation Kent. You ought to stay toasty at night!
I'll keep the contact info for future reference.
Thanks Harold,
Should be perfect for that mid-winter cup of coffee. Oh, and the donuts too...
https://youtu.be/ydqkBG22Tk8
Mmmm...
Kent
I'm still looking forward to both!
Chris,
Meyers RV has a nice LD following already from what I was told. If these LD owners are on LDO then perhaps they can concur as to my satisfactory review.
After speaking with Manny at Meyers, I get the impression that they are dedicated to getting things done right.
They had my job completed in 2 1/2 days and except for the quick disconnect itself, I would never have known they had taken my galley apart.
Located in LA county they are centrally located in Torrance CA at 433 Alaska Avenue (310) 328-1515. Not far off the 405 and Crenshaw.
I'm covering all my bases. The Mothership, my local Ford truck center and Meyers RV. Life is good.
Kent
As posted previously, I had a good experience with Meyers years ago, so it appears from Kent's more recent work that they are reliable over time.
Kent: my Ford dealer is no longer in business. What is your local Ford truck dealer? Thanks, Jon
Jon,
I've been going to Caruso Ford in Long Beach, CA 3500 Cherry Ave. North of the 405 Fwy. 562 426-3301or 562 627-5100 Truck Center.
As far as I know, it is the only local Ford dealer who services RV's. I've had my LD truck AC repaired there as well as front end alignments and oil changes.
I do see several Class A's and C's there in for service as well as Ambulances. So far, I've been very satisfied with their work. Not sure where I would take the Ford end of the rig otherwise.
Good luck,
Kent
thanks, Kent! I used to have an RV-mad service writer at Walker-Buerge Ford in West L.A. Who would shoehorn me into to their tight-quarters facility. But he moved on, and shortly thereafter the dealership was leveled -- literally-- and something else is being built. -- Jon
My goodness it is nice, warm and quiet in the RB this morning.
Just installed the legs on my Wave 6. After reading all the cautionary notes and operation instructions I placed the Wave at the rear of the coach, fired it up and now bask in its radiant glow.
It truly is an amazing feeling to have heat without the roar of a furnace. Actually kind of hard to believe. Quiet comfortable and no need to constantly adjust the furnace to control the heat.
Next stop Zion with chilly nights and cold morning hours...not! Wave 6...it rocks!
Kent
Nice! So Kent, did you get a long hose so you can move it around the coach?
Bringing this one back from the archives rather than starting a new thread. A couple of questions RE the posts above.
I'll be doing an install just like Kent's in our 2011 27RB - same location for the QD, same heater (Wave 6). Were I going to be anywhere near Torrance any time soon, I'd use the same installer - but that's not an option.
I've worked with gas lines before, but won't be doing the entire job myself. I don't have the proper tools or experience to flare the existing copper lines, but the rest is within my skill set. I've somebody local that will tackle the gas lines for me for both the heater install and an Extend A Stay I'll be doing at the same time, but I'll do any removal of items necessary to gain access and hook everything up.
I've ordered up the portable heater kit from RV Solar Electric linked to by Larry, but in speaking with them on the phone - I inquired about the lack of valve in their kit. He pointed out that other gas appliances in the RV don't have valves, and he considered it unnecessary as I could simply step out the door and turn off the supply. His point was, that a supply valve was typically installed inside cabinetry somewhere and accessing it wouldn't be any faster than turning off the main supply. Granted, this means trusting the QD to always do its job when no heater is connected - but if gas rated, is that a significant risk? I've no idea of how these things are designed...is a QD any more likely to fail than a shutoff valve?
If so, rather than add a valve inline under the sink or somewhere else - I do like Kent's design where the valve is right at the QD, even though it makes the QD stick out a bit further. Found this one on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/SHINESTAR-Propane-Disconnect-Fittings-Pressure/dp/B072JM95GQ) that is gas-rated, not sure if it's similar or not - but it has the added safety feature of locking in the QD on the hose side once the valve is opened. You can't remove the QD without shutting off the valve.
So - valve or no?
Thanks for any feedback.
Will
"His point was, that a supply valve was typically installed inside cabinetry somewhere and accessing it wouldn't be any faster than turning off the main supply."
---
IMO, his "point" is baloney; if something goes south with the Wave when I'm inside the rig - and if the thing is on, I am inside the rig! - I can reach and flip the cut-off valve in the line in a lower cabinet a whole lot faster than I can get out the door, run around the rig, open the LPG compartment, and turn off the main valve. There is no way that I would ever have a Wave installed without an easily accessible cut-off valve in the line inside the rig. :o
YMMV.
Will,
My installation was per the wisdom set forth by the LDO “genius pool”. The QD shut off valve was highly recommended as I recall.
As for mine sticking out “into traffic”, it doesn’t. If I’m not thinking about it’s location, it completely blends in and runs no risk of being bumped while going about the daily routine.
The shut off valve is an added guarantee that if the QD itself should ever leak then the flow of propane can be closed off until corrective measures can be taken.
In regards to the usefulness of the shut off valve itself, the tech at Myers RV Center suggested closing off the flow of propane to the Wave 6 prior to shutting down the heater itself. It had been his experience that by shutting off the heater first prior to disconnecting the hose at the QD a certain amount of residual propane will sometimes escape (albeit small and no risk of ignition) at the QD area and the scent will linger in the rig. I always close the shut off at the QD and let the Wave consume what propane is left in the line prior to shutting the valve at the Wave.
Having a shut off valve close to the QD just makes common sense to me in any case.
Here’s a shot, once again, of my QD. Best of luck with your installation.
Kent
I can reach and flip the cut-off valve in the line in a lower cabinet a whole lot faster than I can get out the door, run around the rig, open the LPG compartment, and turn off the main valve.
Point taken, but on my 27 RB - it wouldn't be significantly faster with a valve inside a cabinet. Layout must be different on yours. My tank/shutoff valve is just outside the entry door, and nothing blocks access to it as might be the case with items stored under the sink.
With Kent's valve setup mentioned above, you bet - absolutely faster to turn off inside, regardless of tank location. Should I utilize a valve - leaning towards it as of now - that's the route I would go.
Having a shut off valve close to the QD just makes common sense to me in any case.
Agreed, Kent - no other way I would do it knowing that option exists.
Does yours function the same as the one linked on Amazon? That is, the QD can't be engaged/disengaged unless the valve is closed? Minor perhaps, but that seems like a nice additional safety measure.
"on my 27 RB - it wouldn't be significantly faster with a valve inside a cabinet. Layout must be different on yours. My tank/shutoff valve is just outside the entry door, and nothing blocks access to it as might be the case with items stored under the sink."
---
The propane compartment on my 2003 TK is at the driver's side rear of the rig, so, yes, a different location from yours. The line for the Wave 3 in my rig runs along the bottom of the under-stove cabinet; the control lever/valve for the line is accessed through a cut-out in the wall between that cabinet and the under-sink cabinet. I make sure that there is never anything blocking the lever.
Will,
The Amazon QD/Shut Off works as mine does. You cannot connect the Wave line to the QD nor disconnect it while the valve is open. Indeed a nice safety feature.
Kent
I'll not pretend to know the ins/outs of other years and layouts, but at least for my 2011 27RB - this job looks very DIY friendly, assuming adequate precautions are taken. I'm not suggesting anyone ignore the "play it safe" sentiment that has been expressed above - propane is certainly nothing to be taken lightly. However, after chatting with Vince at the factory and debating the best way to gain access to the propane lines - there's really not much to this on my 27RB. No propane line cutting/modifications need to be done in place - they can all be done outside the RV.
Rather than yank the stove or pull the power center for access, there's a single 1/4" ply panel separating the storage area beneath the fridge from everything under the stove. Two minutes, four screws, and you have virtually unfettered access to everything needed. BTW, as you can see from the attached pics below - this also gives great access to the water heater and water lines should that ever be needed.
As seen in the attached closeup pic, I've highlighted a short piece of copper tubing connecting two tees in the supply line. My plan:
- Remove this section of tube
- From the portable heater hookup kit ordered from RV Solar Electric, take the tee and union (labeled "adapter" in the kit diagram) to my local propane expert along with the removed section of tube
- Have them shorten/flare the removed section of tube such that it, combined with the tee and union are the same length as the original tube
- Reinstall, attach supply line/QD/valve, return to propane guy for pressurized leak test
I'll followup when complete.
I installed a lot of propane QDs and always included a gas-rated shut-off valve. The quick disconnect is sealed by o-rings, which can and do fail. Whenever we use our Wave 3, the valve is shut off when the heater is turned off.
While the interiors of the same floorpan may look identical, LD has change the construction details of the cabinets many times.
An installation technique that works in one year's RB, will not necessarily work in a later RB.
I have used the combination QD and shut-off valve in applications where is no convenient place to locate a separate shut off valve, inside the cabinet. The combination valve's downside is how far it sticks out from the wall.
Pulling the stove is five minute job and it isn't as heavy as it looks. Slide it out and set it on the dinette table.
In a RB, this provide good access to the stove's propane line and, with the addition of a tee, allows the new tubing to drop into the cabinet below. The tee can usually be installed without cutting or flaring the original tubing.
The method you describe should work fine too, I need to take a look at a RB's propane lines to refresh my memory.
Larry
Hi Will. Your plan sounds good from here. The manual valve in line with the QD is called double redundancy. QD's fail once in a while, and often leak a lot while being connected or disconnected. Kent's plan is good too, to use up as much propane in the flex line as possible, before disconnecting. Your LPG detector and your ears will thank you. A more commonly encountered quick disconnect, is tools at the end of a compressed air line. When changing out a tire inflation chuck for another tool, a lot of air escapes. (of course that is much higher pressure).
My preference is to breathe as little of that propane as possible. Your gas person would benefit from your picture. You don't need to 'flare' any pipes. You can do it with compression fittings instead. They are easier to install and less likely to leak. The fittings are more common, and making flared ends is a 'fading away' skill set. RonB
3/8 in. O.D. Tube, All 3 Ends - BrassCraft (https://www.brasscraft.com/product/38-in-o-d-tube-all-3-ends-3/)
While the interiors of the same floorpan may look identical, LD has change the construction details of the cabinets many times.
An installation technique that works in one year's RB, will not necessarily work in a later RB.
Pulling the stove is five minute job and it isn't as heavy as it looks. Slide it out and set it on the dinette table.
In a RB, this provide good access to the stove's propane line and, with the addition of a tee, allows the new tubing to drop into the cabinet below. The tee can usually be installed without cutting or flaring the original tubing.
I quoted you twice, Larry - as the first part of your reply illustrates why the latter part is wrong in my case. ;D
I read earlier comments about removing the stove, and yes - it's simple and quick. That was my initial plan before I started digging into things.
However, in my era of RB - there's a horizontal plywood panel directly beneath the stove separating it from the area shown in my pics. There's a small hole in the back corner of this panel through which the stove supply line is fed, but otherwise everything of interest is below this panel. The only gas fitting above this panel is on the stove, next to the burners where the supply line attaches.
And...this plywood panel is stapled in place between wood framing. It's not coming out without a fight and/or major surgery. Definitely not the way to access things for an interior heater hookup in my case.
You don't need to 'flare' any pipes. You can do it with compression fittings instead. They are easier to install and less likely to leak. The fittings are more common, and making flared ends is a 'fading away' skill set.
I'm not gonna pretend for a second to be a propane plumbing expert, Ron - but that's the exact opposite of what the propane guys tell me. Their position is also backed up in a few Google searches I've done.
Two propane installers I spoke with said compression fittings should never be used on gas lines, and while perhaps a local thing - one said they are forbidden by code in residential applications. They said they were fine for air and/or "non dangerous fluids" - but were prone to leakage when used anywhere movement was possible.
Every propane copper fitting I can see in the LD is flared. Between that and the local propane installers' comments, I think I'll stick with that for this project.
Don't want to harp on this unnecessarily, Ron - but as mentioned earlier, propane is nothing to mess around with.
If you read the instructions supplied with the fitting you linked to - it states the following:
"These fittings are used in potable and non-potable water systems, instrumentation, hydraulic and pneumatic systems. Do not use for gas connections of any kind."
Two propane installers I spoke with said compression fittings should never be used on gas lines, and while perhaps a local thing - one said they are forbidden by code in residential applications. They said they were fine for air and/or "non dangerous fluids" - but were prone to leakage when used anywhere movement was possible.
The installers you talked with are correct, natural gas and propane fittings need to be flared.
While flaring tubing isn't a difficult skill to obtain, this is not the place to practice.
After finishing the install, pressure check for leaks using a commercial leak detector fluid.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/8-oz-All-Purpose-Leak-Detector-302092/100151681
A manometer can be used to check for pressure drop.
Perfect-Prime AR1890 Professional Digital Air Pressure Meter & Manometer to... (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00N3PPZZY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Building a Simple RV Propane Leak Tester U Tube Manometer (https://www.loveyourrv.com/building-simple-rv-propane-leak-tester-u-tube-manometer/)
Larry
Been watching this thread with interest because it's a project I'm contemplating in my LD. Just as a point of interest flare tools are cheap and easy to use. My entire home runs on propane, stove, refrigerator, hot water heater back up propane heater and clothes dryer. It's really not that big a deal to plumb for propane. We haven't blown up yet. :)
Just as a point of interest flare tools are cheap and easy to use. My entire home runs on propane, stove, refrigerator, hot water heater back up propane heater and clothes dryer. It's really not that big a deal to plumb for propane.
With the caveat "If you know what you are doing" ;)
If you think you do and are mistaken... :o :o :o
I'll hire it out and sleep well.
Joel
With the caveat "If you know what you are doing" ;)
If you think you do and are mistaken... :o :o :o
I'll hire it out and sleep well.
Joel
I'll have to admit I had good instruction from a guy that was head of engineering- pipe fitter at a paper mill so I had a leg up on the game. Really very simple procedure though once you are not intimidated by it. The other thing is it's a simple matter to check all your connections with soapy water to assure they fit well but I can understand wanting an actual pipe fitter to do this for you.
I did all my own pipe fitting on my all propane house and it worked out well except that I have to haul my own propane in hundred pound tanks because propane companies won't hook you up to their tanks without a certified pipe fitter having done everything. Not a huge deal because we heat with wood which is the big energy user and the appliances don't use all that much. I stock up for winter with half a dozen extra tanks and we are good until late spring when we can drive in again in a pickup.
Does anyone know about the line of heaters from Empire, SR6, SR10 and the SR10T? They claim 99.9% efficiency? Are they Catalytic? They supposedly have an oxygen sensor which turns the unit off when oxygen drops below a certain value? Do they work well at altitude? Most discussions are about the Olympian wave catalytic heaters, I have ordered a Olympic wave 6 for our 98 ~ MB. I wish there was an overnight solution to being able to sleep with a heater on and not the noise furnice while unplugged.
Thanks
Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA
Karen & Liam,
With the Wave 6, you get silent heat all night long. There is no fan and no electricity required. The Wave disperses radiant heat like the sun and warms interior furnishings and you as well when standing in front of it.
Don’t forget to follow the Waves instructions and keep an overhead vent open while in use.
Good choice. We love ours.
Kent
So with a roof vent slightly open and possibly a window cracked you can run the olympic heater all night with no worries about CO emissions and asphyxiation?
Karen~Liam
98 ~ M
NinA
I know that some do crack a vent or window and run the Wave all night when they’re sleeping; I don’t. If the heater is on, I’m awake. The Wave product description that I read on the Camco website did not state that the unit has a low oxygen sensor to shut it off of the O2 is inadequate. (The Wave 3 that I have is a few years old; new models *may* have a low O2 sensor; I don’t know.) The CO detector in my rig is pretty new and working as designed as far as I know, but I prefer not to take a chance on not waking up.
YMMV, as always.
So with a roof vent slightly open and possibly a window cracked you can run the olympic heater all night with no worries about CO emissions and asphyxiation?
Correct. That is, assuming your "you" refers to "me." If you're using it in the collective form, well...there's clearly some debate on that. :)
I'll trust the manufacturer's approval for this use, along with redundant CO detectors and cracked vents at each end of my rig.
Perhaps my actions are slightly more risky than a meteor strike in the middle of the night, but my worry factor is about the same.
"Pulling the stove is five minute job and it isn't as heavy as it looks. Slide it out and set it on the dinette table." Larry
Don't you have to disconnect the gas line to remove the stove? How is that accomplished?
Thanks Bob
For those of you that have a Wave 3 heater in their RV, if you use the heater with the legs attached, do you put anything underneath the heater to protect the floor area from the heat? Thanks.
"if you use the heater with the legs attached, do you put anything underneath the heater to protect the floor area from the heat?"
-----
No. I've never noticed any heat radiating from the bottom of the Wave.
On edit: The Wave 3 in my TK is moveable, i.e., on a hose/quick-connect system; it is never placed on a carpeted surface or on a throw rug, but always on the vinyl floor. That said, the Wave doesn't emit heat from its bottom, only heat from direct radiation from the slightly up-tilted face (its position when on its legs) of the unit.
Joan, I appreciate your input and look forward to giving my Wave 3 a try out in Quartzsite next month. I've had it for three years and I have never have used it. My plan is to try it this year using a portable propane tank..... I know this is not recommended but have talked to others that do it and am not too concerned. I will only be using it while awake. If I am satisfied with it's performance I will tap into the RV's propane supply for future use.
Two comments:
The catalytic pad of the Wave is very susceptible to contamination from dust; I hope that your Wave has been stored in its original packaging or covered for the past three years?
YMMV, but I would not be at all comfortable with using a portable propane tank inside the rig.
It has been covered and stored in a secure closed place...
"Pulling the stove is five minute job and it isn't as heavy as it looks. Slide it out and set it on the dinette table." Larry
Don't you have to disconnect the gas line to remove the stove? How is that accomplished?
Yes, there is gas line, under the stove's removable top, that need to be unscrewed.
Before removing the gas line, shut off the main propane valve and empty the system by lighting burner on the stove. Once the flame has gone out, it is safe to disconnect the gas line.
Before disconnecting the line, remove the one screw clamp that holds the line in position.
Once the line is disconnected, remove the four screws, under the stove top and the two screws at the bottom of the door screws that restrain the stove and then pull straight outward and sit it on a table or floor.
Behind the stove there usually is a propane fitting where the new Tee can be attached and the new propane line run from there.
A few models have interior propane access at either the water heater or furnace, depending on the floorplan and year of construction.
Larry
My plan is to try it this year using a portable propane tank..... I know this is not recommended but have talked to others that do it and am not too concerned.
I can't see any problem at all with that, as long as the tank is outside. Some might argue it's actually safer than a QD internal setup.
Here's a post if you haven't seen it (http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=31501.0) of just such a setup. Running the propane line out the shower window, combined with pipe insulation on the window edge allows for the small amount of necessary ventilation.
For those of you that have a Wave 3 heater in their RV, if you use the heater with the legs attached, do you put anything underneath the heater to protect the floor area from the heat? Thanks.
The Waves are designed to run at just above floor level using the optional legs.
The legs provide the needed clearance.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1431/1415572901_51ed1e331b.jpg)
The "official clearances for the Wave 3 are combustible materials must be a minimum of:
4" from each side
4" from the floor(rug, tile, etc.)
18" from the top
30" from the front
0" from the rear
Larry
Hi Fred;, to use a one pound tank, you'll need a pressure regulator. The non-refillable tank will last about 22,000 BTU, so about 7 hours if you run the Wave 3 at full. Make sure the connections are leak free. Your nose, or propane detector will let you know if they aren't. RonB
Question for those of you using the Wave legs.
The plumbing kit I picked up included a set of Wave legs, and the package stated they were for all models including my Wave 6.
However...
The leg package only included two mounting screws - one per leg. There are four threaded inserts on the bottom of my Wave 6, two per side - seemingly indicating each leg should have two screws. However, confusing things even further...each leg has multiple holes drilled, and yet there is no combination of holes that would allow securing each leg with two screws.
So, one screw per leg is what I have now and that's all that is possible with my setup without drilling more holes in the legs. It does seem stable, but...normal?
It was my intent to use a 10# tank that I carry for my outdoor grill with a Camco 12' hose and regulator. Haven't considered running the hose in from the out side... I'll have to take a look at doing that!
Question for those of you using the Wave legs.
The leg package only included two mounting screws - one per leg.
So, one screw per leg is what I have now and that's all that is possible with my setup without drilling more holes in the legs.
It does seem stable, but...normal?
That is not normal, the kit should've come with four leg screws.
Take one of the screws to the local hardware store and buy two matching screws, making sure to verify the screw and thread size.
It will cost maybe a dollar and is a lot easier than trying to get replacements from the manufacturer.
Larry
Take one of the screws to the local hardware store and buy two matching screws, making sure to verify the screw and thread size.
Yeah...if the holes on the legs actually lined up with the threaded inserts on the heater, I'd have done that. They don't, and after a call to Camco - here's the scoop.
There's a "new" version of the Wave 6 - perhaps other models as well. For whatever reason, the threaded inserts in the bottom for the feet are in a slightly different location from the "old" version. So, if you have "old" feet and a "new" heater - no worky. Since I picked up my heater from a different source than the feet, I likely got old stock on the feet.
And, it's not just as simple as drilling a new hole in the legs in the proper location. The new threaded inserts are not in a straight line, perpendicular to the face of the heater. So, while you could drill a new hole in the legs and physically make them line up with the inserts - the legs would not be oriented correctly. They'd cant inwards quite a bit.
Camco will ship out new feet for no charge if you call them, but they are backordered.
Other than the minor issue with support legs mentioned above, my Wave 6 installation is complete. And...I had a change of heart and decided to tackle it myself, choosing to learn a new skill. Armed with patience, plenty of practice, YouTube videos and the right tools - it's really not rocket science for those that are somewhat technically inclined and can give attention to detail. All fittings passed leak tests. YMMV, don't attempt if you have doubts, etc.
Two new tools were added to my arsenal that made the job pretty straightforward.
After a couple test runs on some copper scrap tubing, this flaring tool from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LL1KUU/) made perfect flares every time. Some RV guy named "Andy Baird" gave it a positive review at Amazon, helping to cement the purchase decision. 8)
Next up was a tubing bender, and this $8 item from Harbor Freight (https://www.harborfreight.com/tubing-bender-3755.html) works just dandy on the required 3/8" copper tubing. Tight 90's with nary a kink. You can see in the attached installation photos how it helped to perfectly route around the existing heater duct from the tee to the valve/QD.
The portable heater hookup kit (http://www.rvsolarelectric.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=28&product_id=61) mentioned by Larry and sold through RV Solar Electric includes a Hansen QD valve, but no shut off valve. That was easily remedied by picking up a gas rated 1/4" valve locally, and placing it inline with the QD. The Hansen valve fits snugly inside a 7/8" hole, and a simple bracket included with the kit snugs it tight against the panel where installed below the oven. However, given how thin the panel is in this location - I fabbed up a simple additional, second support bracket for the back side to support the rear of the QD and valve. The bracket is attached to the thicker framing around the thinner paneling. Details shown in the pics, everything is quite solid - no movement when using the QD or operating the valve.
As "luck" would have it, we just encountered a three day power outage from a massive wind storm up here on the Olympic Peninsula. Suffice it to say, significant time was spent in the LD where power and heat were present. Add me to the list of happy Wave 6 owners...outside temps dropped to the 30's, and it easily kept the interior comfortable.
We alway enjoy a success story.
Well done.
Larry
"...it's really not rocket science for those that are somewhat technically inclined and can give attention to detail."
I've seen a few of these sorts of installations and I can say that yours is right up there at the top, Five stars for a neat job! Loved how you concealed the shut-off valve and the location was brilliant. A project like this can sure do wonders for future confidence. ;) ;D
RE the leg issue - that backorder didn't take long. Arrived today.
However, there's no significant redesign - they just elongated the holes a bit. Could have done the same to the original set with a drill in a few minutes.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aCt8N6pVDnijnaq6mbTj_oba4XNJLznfQHHVDNSTkIUvsEg0Dsnwx9_qdmCma0AnUrXYTVzerJcx16sg9DJIcyR1Rt0dg8LMlXDHqx6XAh_9WqGpHX0ykKe1-2IvqlwQee9PjE-fSR8=w1200)
If anyone is planning on ordering up a Wave 3/6/8 and wants a set of "old" legs for the price of a shipping label - drop me a note.
As mentioned above, they came short two screws so count on another 50 cents and a trip to the hardware store.
We ordered a Wave 6 and Legs on Amazon (LDO link) a little over a week ago. The box came end of last week and the Legs fit! I did order a slightly used Wave 6 for a $100 discount, the box was slightly damaged but the unit inside looked unused. I have also bought a propane inline filter which I have adapted to fit just fine. A filter might be a good idea since we will use it with a smaller tank outside and rubber feed line. I have read that sometimes the rubber lines could have small bits release and clog up the heater. I will do a line from the stove in the future in our 98~MB with a shut off valve, just have to figure where to put it. We are still nervous about running it when we are sleeping even with windows and vent cracked open.
Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA
If anyone is interested in the inline filter that I used it is the one for the Mr Heater and a couple of adapters below.
Karen~Liam
98 ~ MB
NinA
Amazon.com: Mr. Heater 1/4 Male Pipe Thread x 1"-20 Female Throwaway... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQM8IU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Amazon.com: Mr. Heater 1"-20 Male Throwaway Cylinder thread x 1/4" Female... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BPGRXI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Amazon.com: Mr. Heater Fuel Filter for Portable Big Buddy Heaters #F273699:... (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HE8P2O/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1)
Any idea where I could get an installation like the one from Myers here in Northern CA? I live in Menlo Park, and can travel wherever up here to get it done. Ideas, or do I have to go down to Myers RV? Thanks
I have found someone to install my QD fitting in the stove propane line. I’m getting ready to place my order for the Wave 3. I am unsure if I need to have a regulator on the hose from the valve to the heater. Thanks.
"I live in Menlo Park and can travel..."
I live in Concord and the only place I'll let anyone touch my rig is either the factory or:
Home, Napa, CA | Dan Shavlik’s RV Service (https://dansrvrepair.com/) :o ::) ;)
I have found someone to install my QD fitting in the stove propane line. I’m getting ready to place my order for the Wave 3. I am unsure if I need to have a regulator on the hose from the valve to the heater. Thanks.
The line behind the stove is already regulated to low pressure, so a direct connection to the Wave 3 is fine. I'd recommend putting a shutoff valve in the feed to the QD. Make sure it is accessible without too much trouble. In our 2002 MB I installed it under the stove right next to the drawer under the fridge. I could pull the drawer out and turn the valve on/off.
HTH,
Art
I’m puzzled about the type of hose needed to use the Camco QD valve and plug that Larry has recommended, with the Wave 3 heater. Determining end fittings are getting the best of me.
Camco Propane Quick Connect Kit - Valve and Full Flow Plug, Additional Safety Shut- Off- For Use with Low-Pressure Propane Systems, Easy Install (59853)
I’d ideally like 5-6 feet of hose. Thanks.